<div class="quote"><i>Airhead07 wrote:
@Kara <p>Yes, what you say is true, but only Bell will decide who he will give his heart to regardless of how Hestia or Aiz feels or if he decides to give it to everyone. </p> </i></div>
<p>True at the end its upto bell or precisely our author to decide bells fate irrespective of how anyone feels. I just hope he does justice to all the characters. </p><p>It would be really amusing  and interesting if he decides to give it to everyone xD </p>

<p>@Kara </p><p>Bell wasn't dead, Hestia confirmed that her blessing was still active. So in her case quickly mobilizing a rescue team and making haste through the dungeon was paramount. However, by joining the group all she did was further slow them down and force them to protect another defenseless being. Hermes may also be a god, but he seems to be far more capable of handling himself on long excursions through dark places due to his frequent trips. If Hestia wanted to sacrifice herself to keep Bell alive, similar to Brigid, she would still need to get to him first and not die along the way. Also this is slightly besides the point, but the beam of energy released when a god is sent back to heaven seems to vaporize anything above them at the time, including other floors of the dungeon and the city if they are underground, which is what happened when Thanatos kills himself in Knossos. So Hestia is not only risking Bell's life with her foolishness, but also the lives of everyone else that would get caught up in this mess. </p><p>The way she understands and helps Bell in Edas Village, is not really any different from how Miach and Hermes helps Bell when he appeared lost and troubled. Both of them were able to "see through" Bell just as much as Hestia did when she was also trying to alleviate his anguish. </p><p>Claiming that Hestia wouldn't intervene if Bell and Ais have romantic interactions in front of her seems to be an unfounded statement considering all the times she has intervened when Bell and Ais were together. For example, she interferes when Bell and Ais were in Rivira during the tour, she interferes during the dance at Apollo's celebration of the gods, she interferes in Edas Village when Bell clearly wanted to ask Ais for another dance. </p><p>We are only discussing the loan because it was part of one of your arguments in the earlier post. Also because you seem to be making claims about Hestia Familia's finances that don't appear to be supported by the LNs. Unless you can provide me with a reference from DM6 that mentions how the familia's net worth would still be in the red after receiving the War Game reward money, I have no reason to believe this. Similarly, as I mentioned earlier, Hestia negotiated with Soma that she would make Apollo pay for the knife in full once they win the competition--this is verifiable from the LN. So even though Zanis suggested the amount of 10 million valis for Lily's separation from the familia, it seems Hestia paid Soma the full amount of 200 million. I'll admit that there is some flexibility here in the interpretation as the market value of the knife may actually be less than the loan amount since the knife is designed to only work with Hestia's falna, however because there is nothing specified about this in the LN there is no reason to believe that the author wanted us to assume this. </p><p>Bell and Hestia were roommates with a limited amount of resources for a period of time, so they were forced to be in close proximity to one another. However, it doesn't makes sense to use this to make the claim that Bell developed feelings for Hestia beyond the relationship of any other god and follower, especially when there is nothing to support this in the LNs. Just because someone is physically close to another person, doesn't necessarily mean they are also emotionally close. Most gods are shown to be quite familiar with their followers, frequently interacting with them on personal topics which is quite easy for them since they are gods and have the ability to read children's intentions, in this respect Bell and Hestia's relationship is not any different. </p><p>Also thanks for the compliment. </p>

<div class="quote"><i>BurningLight7 wrote:
@Kara <p>Bell wasn't dead, Hestia confirmed that her blessing was still active. So in her case quickly mobilizing a rescue team and making haste through the dungeon was paramount. However, by joining the group all she did was further slow them down and force them to protect another defenseless being. Hermes may also be a god, but he seems to be far more capable of handling himself on long excursions through dark places due to his frequent trips. If Hestia wanted to sacrifice herself to keep Bell alive, similar to Brigid, she would still need to get to him first and not die along the way. Also this is slightly besides the point, but the beam of energy released when a god is sent back to heaven seems to vaporize anything above them at the time, including other floors of the dungeon and the city if they are underground, which is what happened when Thanatos kills himself in Knossos. So Hestia is not only risking Bell's life with her foolishness, but also the lives of everyone else that would get caught up in this mess. </p><p>The way she understands and helps Bell in Edas Village, is not really any different from how Miach and Hermes helps Bell when he appeared lost and troubled. Both of them were able to "see through" Bell just as much as Hestia did when she was also trying to alleviate his anguish. </p><p>Claiming that Hestia wouldn't intervene if Bell and Ais have romantic interactions in front of her seems to be an unfounded statement considering all the times she has intervened when Bell and Ais were together. For example, she interferes when Bell and Ais were in Rivira during the tour, she interferes during the dance at Apollo's celebration of the gods, she interferes in Edas Village when Bell clearly wanted to ask Ais for another dance. </p><p>We are only discussing the loan because it was part of one of your arguments in the earlier post. Also because you seem to be making claims about Hestia Familia's finances that don't appear to be supported by the LNs. Unless you can provide me with a reference from DM6 that mentions how the familia's net worth would still be in the red after receiving the War Game reward money, I have no reason to believe this. Similarly, as I mentioned earlier, Hestia negotiated with Soma that she would make Apollo pay for the knife in full once they win the competition--this is verifiable from the LN. So even though Zanis suggested the amount of 10 million valis for Lily's separation from the familia, it seems Hestia paid Soma the full amount of 200 million. I'll admit that there is some flexibility here in the interpretation as the market value of the knife may actually be less than the loan amount since the knife is designed to only work with Hestia's falna, however because there is nothing specified about this in the LN there is no reason to believe that the author wanted us to assume this. </p><p>Bell and Hestia were roommates with a limited amount of resources for a period of time, so they were forced to be in close proximity to one another. However, it doesn't makes sense to use this to make the claim that Bell developed feelings for Hestia beyond the relationship of any other god and follower, especially when there is nothing to support this in the LNs. Just because someone is physically close to another person, doesn't necessarily mean they are also emotionally close. Most gods are shown to be quite familiar with their followers, frequently interacting with them on personal topics which is quite easy for them since they are gods and have the ability to read children's intentions, in this respect Bell and Hestia's relationship is not any different. </p><p>Also thanks for the compliment. </p> </i></div>
<p>I didnt say bell was dead, i said that was the  worst consequences for their party because they were venturing into dangerous levels of the dungeon, the fact that she knew that bell was alive because of her blessing is the reason she had still hope & went after him because whats the point of having a familia when the only member might die and you sit back and do nothing? on top of that he is someone very special to her. Do you understand the emotions behind it? Hermes might be a little more capable than hestia in terms of surviving but i dont think hes that strong, because thats the very reason he took asfi with him. and he even asked her if she can protect both him and hestia if the situation arises, mostly because of the fact that gods arent allowed to activate their powers.So yea both hermes and hestia can activate their divine powers if it comes to a dire situation.  And i am not sure what the beam of energy  does when a god dies or actually evaporates or whatever. Because when brigid died i dont think the same thing happened, only a pillar of light which took her upto heaven also when Thanatos killed himself he intentionally blew up knossos so Loki and her Familia could escape. So yea i am not sure of that theory that it vaporizes & destroys everything.  </p><p>​​​And again i said even though it was reckless  i admit, but given the dire situation, she didnt want it to leave upto anyone else for bells fate. There were few members in the rescue party in the first place but capable people like Ryu and Asfi who are more than capable to handle situations. Everybody was risking their lives there and i dont think hermes and hestia would let themselves killed without using their powers, they are gods after all. Brigid got killed just trying to save Karms life when they were both alone which is a different case and this was a different situation. </p><p>Also Hermes and Miach saw through bell in a different way than hestia, thats how you generally figure if a person is troubled through their expressions and behaviour and give them general advice, Like how a friend or friendly person would do. But to actually truly understand whats going on in their hearts and to know how to comfort them not only through words and affection but with real emotional & heartfelt actions which go through them thats a more deep connection which she has with bell. Did you see bell cry infront of miach and hermes like he did before hestia? No Its because he can open upto her without holding back and she can take all of his emotions. Thats a different level of relationship.  I said maybe, but also said she probably might intervene as per her usual antics, but if the training is serious and focused which is normally the case when Bell and Ais Train, and i havent seen any romantic interaction when they train seriously apart from when he wakes up on her lap after getting knocked out by her, dont know even if it counts as one.Apart from that yea not only AIs, any girl who gets close, she intervenes and gets possesive as usual. No excuses.  </p><p>As for the Loan part apart even though the LN doesnt specify the winnings amount from the war games and it is hard to evaluate, i assumed it was either not enough to pay the loan or hestia doesnt want it since its her responsiblity that she should cover up for it and the other funds should be used for the familia and guild. I brought the loan part because the other person said she blew up the money instead of paying the loan as if she blew the money on her personal uses, No she used it for lilis conversion and for the renovation, that was my main point. Also i cant prove unless the author himself gives the figures but if the amount was actually that big of a load, it means they could have paid of the debt, but the fact author made it that the debt couldnt be paid still and could be only used for other purposes surely means the two reasons i stated above. otherwise why would you not want your main familia to not grow more because of the debt. Seems the most logical reason to me Also when she said she will make Apollo pay for the knife, i dont think she knew that either that apollo even had that much money, Also Soma didnt care much about anything and the fact is Lilii went to pay her conversion money in exchange for the knife to soma which he didnt even count and the amount suggested to Lilli was 10 million, So the value to soma for knife wasnt 200 million it was just a collateral kept for lillis conversion money.  And even though Hephaestus made the Weapon exclusive to hestia's falna. dont forget its forged by hephaestus herself and the worth of  the weapons crafted by her in the market are like, cant even put a price at it. you know what i am talking about. </p><p>​​​​​Yea hestia and bell were roommates with limited space and resources, but they made most of what they had and make do with it. For two people to live under such circumstances contently and happily it takes a special degree of relationship and makes them trust and understand each other more. They had each other when their familia was small and not that big of a deal. Even when she could manage some potato croquettes for dinner and said sorry He was stuck with a goddess like her, Bell denied her and said he was happy to be with her and things will get better for them. Most gods dont have that personal close relationship with their children or for that matter live with them in such a manner that they share everything with them with that level of intimacy. Again i am not saying necessarily in a romantic manner, but what they share is something special and not the usual god and follower relationship. And Yes bell see's her as a woman which has been shown multiple times not to mention he stopped avoiding her feelings and started accepting them. I am not saying he had developed romantic feelings for her, not yet. He is maturing and developing, so one day he might or might not, but its not impossible.  </p><p>And you are most welcome.Its actually rare to find normal level headed people to discuss without the unnecessary toxicity. Also i am gonna stop the conversation here as its gonna keep going on endlessly not that i enjoyed it its a little too much effort typing all that and i am tired.  This forum is a endless cycle of the same thing repeating on and on tbh. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Kara212 wrote: Hermes might be a little more capable than hestia in terms of surviving but i dont think hes that strong, because thats the very reason he took asfi with him. and he even asked her if she can protect both him and hestia if the situation arises, mostly because of the fact that gods arent allowed to activate their powers.So yea both hermes and hestia can activate their divine powers if it comes to a dire situation.  And i am not sure what the beam of energy  does when a god dies or actually evaporates or whatever. Because when brigid died i dont think the same thing happened, only a pillar of light which took her upto heaven also when Thanatos killed himself he intentionally blew up knossos so Loki and her Familia could escape. So yea i am not sure of that theory that it vaporizes & destroys everything.  </p> </i></div>
<p>Only one correction. The pillar of light destroys everything in it’s way, Thanatos intentionally destroyed Knossos but he did it making the pillar of light appear, anything that is above a god will be destroyed when it is send back to heaven not matters if it was the intention of the god or no, about what is really your post BurningLight7 has already said it </p>

<p>Ahh alright, i thought thanatos created a explosion seperately from his pillar of light. So he just intentionally died to prevent himself from being consumed by the green substance and also to help Loki and her familia to escape, if i am making sense of this.  Also i cant recall but did the same thing happen with dionysus too at the end?  </p>

<p>@Kara </p><p>You keep justifying Hestia's actions by bringing up her emotional state, but I'm pointing out the consequences of her actions due to her emotional state caused Bell more harm than if she did nothing. Therefore, I'm refuting your claim that Hestia going to the dungeon was a good thing done for Bell. </p><p>Beam of energy is the same as your pillar of light. Also, Brigid did release a beam when she was sent back after sacrificing for Caam as well, except she was already on the surface so it didn't damage the environment as much. </p><p>The arcanum powers are released automatically after a fatal injury to gods, like a defense mechanism. However, releasing an arcanum is against the rules and forces the god to be sent back to heaven. Gods don't need to intentionally release it. </p><p>Once again, you are interpreting behavior to suit your argument without proper evidence from the LN. Unless the author specifically states Bell and Hestia have a deep emotional connection, we cannot assume as such. Unless the author specifically provides figures for the reward money, renovations, and general expenses, we cannot assume Hestia not making any payment toward the loan balance was a good decision. Creating a hypothetical situation to support your statements has no place in this discussion. </p><p>Regarding Lily's conversion cost, you seem to adamantly believe that the amount was 10 million yet it was Hestia that made the arrangement with Soma directly. She wasn't around when Zanis explained the conditions to leave the familia to Lily. So it makes no sense to assume she somehow knew the amount was 10 million at the time of the deal. Furthermore, as I keep pointing out to you, Hestia agrees to pay the full amount of the knife to Soma. If you are still not convinced, I suggest you reread the circumstances surrounding the deal made in chapter 4 of DM6. </p><p>Regarding Bell and Hestia living together, here's another example of interpreting behavior to suit your argument without any direct evidence from the LN. Bell and Hestia live together, they eat together, they talk about the day's events, they try to do something special once in a while, how many of these behaviors can without a doubt be attributed to a deep emotional relationship rather than a god caring for their children? Looking at this objectively, the answer is zero. How many times has the author corroborated an unusually deep connection between Bell and Hestia? The answer is zero. The only time when the line gets blurry is when Bell cries to Hestia after Caam's death, but since the author never confirmed Bell having changed his mind about Hestia this can still be argued as having made no change to their relationship. In contrast, most of your argument is unfounded, that somehow normal occurrences between two people forced to live together is a sign of a deeper bond without the author specifically confirming this. </p><p>Though this was fun, it's probably a good idea to bring this discussion to a close. I know you are simply trying to defend your ship, but most of your arguments appeared to rely on unsupported biased conjectures. So I took the liberty of pointing this out. </p>

<p>@ Kara </p><p>You need to understand that often times when you are accusing people of being toxic shippers that more than anything they are dumbfounded that you justify Hestia's behavior. You aren't really being fair on this since absolutely no one would ever consider this to be exceptable in real life. No one wants to be treated like Hestia treats Bell or how she treats girls she see as a threat and their disdain is hardly limited to Hestia. Also whether you want to admit it or not you regularly ingore plotting and putting biased opinions in place as proof. I'm not denying that it happens on the other end, but very very few shippers are even remotely impartial. </p><p>You do not get to say people opinions are invalid because you disagree with them. You called anon's position irrelevent because you said Finn does not except Tione's feelings, you are dead wrong on that, he excepts and respects them but he does not return them. Everything that has been written since DM 8 essentially reflects the same thing in regard to Bell and Hestia, time and time again Bell feeling have been reinforced as what they have always been. </p><p>Frankly you aren't any better than most of what you are calling toxic shippers. Not liking Hestia and calling out her behavior does not make them toxic. Everytime you come to this thread you whine about how unfair everyone is and while it has happened at time (which I would point out that I have shutdown). You have proven no more objective than they have. </p><p>I could refute most of the points that you've made but BurningLight has already done that and I don't feel like reading everything that has been posted in last two days to see if anything was missed or wrong. Especially given I'm going to have to go and clean up the thread again because everyone insist on copying absolutely everything. </p><p>As I have told you before there are there are only two endings to the romance subplot that fit the plotting and narrative of the story. That is BellxHarem or BellxAis. Hestia can only happen with a major plot twist or outright asspull, which the author would need to actually start really foreshadowing for. </p>

<p>A reminder to everyone, quote only what you are responding to and if quoting isn't necessary just use @. </p>

I am not saying I hate Hestia. I actually love her as a Goddess and as an overall character. But she just not a good love interest to me. I don't deny the things she's done for him. Like getting the Hestia Knife. But I don't really see that as a romantic thing. I just see that as a Goddess who cares for her Familia. Just like Loki would do anything for one of her Familia members.

Can I expect to have close the thread forever? I dont think i can see this repeateous things over and over again.