<p>What's the point of the discussion thread if you're just going to say that your opinion is subjective? I want to have an actual discussion on why people think that way, I'm not here just to say "you're wrong about this". Critiquing each others' positions is part of a discussion </p>

<p>doesn't matter Ryuu is better.  </p>

<p>@Gozulolz </p><p>I can pick apart you position whether you are trying to be subjective or objective. Subjective just means you are influenced by your personal biases. That is something that affects absolutely every person no matter how objective and impartial they might try to be. There is no escaping the reality that we are all partial creatures by nature. If anything reading other people critiques of one's opinions is a great way to learn to be more introspective in each of our own writing. People learn far more from their mistakes than they do from their successes. </p><p>You and most Ais fans miss most if not all of the characterization behind her character. Honestly it is a bit frustrating how many time I've had to explain why she is and behaves the she does. Most people chalk it up to being airheaded and immature but that is realistically a gross misunderstanding. </p><p>Angelo and I do not hate Ais, what we are is disappointed in where the author has decided to go with the character and his story in general. If I wasn't invested in the series, I wouldn't be able to write the long critique essays I do about the series. What is annoying with Ais is that her fans constantly have interpretations of the character that have no basis. Without SO she would be a Mcguffin, there is exactly two piece of mystery revealed about her character until DM 15 and one of those is impossible to pick out without reading SO and the other is easier to find but is largely meaningless with SO again. </p><p>We may not be able to know how the story will end, but that doesn't mean it is impossible to understand the characters and where they stand. Ais was once my favorite character in the series because of the subtext surrounding her character, but the author ruined much if no all of that in SO12. There was so much buildup, plotting, and narrative tension going into that volume that the author could have crafted a masterful close to a story arc spanning 12 volumes. To more experienced and well read readers SO 12 and FC EF are a travesty of good story telling.  </p>

<p>@Kevhunt06 </p><p>
Subjective means being influenced by these fantasies and these desires without necessary reasons, it's like saying that I love Aiz because she is blonde, for you is not a sufficient argument but it is subjective a detail is enough to love a character for a reason x if we talk about subjectivity, but objectively I would have made another speech, the problem with Angelo's question is that it automatically pushes the person out of subjective arguments, and given that qu 'she likes this character, you should know that I am just as disappointed as you are writing Aiz AFTER the LN of season 1 but that is not to say that I must give up hope and say that the writing of Aiz is done </p><p>Without wanting to offend you, this is "your point of view" and your analysis on the character that will influence the fans of Aiz, I am by no means enclosing the idea of ​​understanding your point of view but do not forget that that it is only "your" vision of Aiz and that you can certainly not claim that it is the strict truth, the only thing which pushes me to not be 100% in agreement with your remarks are your affirmations, I know Aiz Wallenstein's character very well but do not confuse my own arguments of Aiz which are based on aspects of the character which I liked (subjective argument) with the strict reality which is far from my subjective arguments . </p><p>You can understand the character of Aiz without imposing your choice vision, we all follow the evolution of the character with different points of view and objective arguments that evolve I prefer to say that my objective arguments are a theory rather than to say "this is how the author wrote it and no one can dispute it" I am far from being against your ideals about Aiz I even agree with most of your arguments but do not try to "criticize" subjective arguments, it is strictly useless, that being said I pass to a more objective answer that we can debate without taking the head. </p><p>But it is absolutely normal and logical that SO exists, otherwise the work of Oomori would be incomplete, this allows us to better understand the character, how he thinks and how he interacts with the other characters, and to know more about them. possible future threats that bell will face, and other interesting information. </p><p>Two pieces of mystery? Very well I would like to know them please. </p>

<p>In my opinion, you need to start being objective in addition to being subjective. Forums are a place to discuss/argue stuff; being subjective and getting offended when people don't share your opinion is not the way to do it </p><p>I know my question is off topic, so here's my take on the topic: I'd prefer it that Bell train with all sorts of people than just Ais; that way he can learn a variety of techniques and ways to counter said techniques instead of being carbon copy of Ais like Raul and the others pointed out in SO12. What's stopping this from happening is the familia system which seems totally unnecessary </p>

Well he has trained with Ryuu Lion. Also Tiona Hiryute helped Ais train Bell for the War Game against the Apollo Familia.

<p>Bell also trains with Ryuu, in case you've forgotten. There was Tiona that one time as well. We've also gotten some mentions of him training with Mikoto, though I doubt she actually taught him much of anything. I'm curious as to why you think the familia system is to blame though. Even if there weren't implicit rules against that sort of thing (rules which are so lax that they aren't even rules), would the situation really change that much? How many additional people do you think would spring up to train him? </p>

<div class="quote"><i>Angelo Gabrini wrote:
In my opinion, you need to start being objective in addition to being subjective. Forums are a place to discuss/argue stuff; being subjective and getting offended when people don't share your opinion is not the way to do it <p>I know my question is off topic, so here's my take on the topic: I'd prefer it that Bell train with all sorts of people than just Ais; that way he can learn a variety of techniques and ways to counter said techniques instead of being carbon copy of Ais like Raul and the others pointed out in SO12. What's stopping this from happening is the familia system which seems totally unnecessary </p> </i></div>
<p>As I told you my answer was just subjective but I will be objective to answer your theory: </p><p>Bell must indeed have varied these techniques by training with other people, I would prefer that he train with someone more powerful than him such as Ottar who can be a possibility when freeya wants to put his plan into execution, or the unknown who has still not appeared, on the other hand I see very badly Bell training with characters weaker than him, it is true that Famillia's system makes the characters totally closed to the idea of to help another famillia to progress, it would be necessary that they have common interests or that they are allies that the training can take place. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Ascetic09 wrote: Bell also trains with Ryuu, in case you've forgotten. There was Tiona that one time as well. We've also gotten some mentions of him training with Mikoto, though I doubt she actually taught him much of anything. </p> </i></div>
<p>Yes, I did forget, though it doesn't seem to have any influence on his style at all </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>I'm curious as to why you think the familia system is to blame though... </p> </i></div>
<p>Being in a familia restricts how you can interact with other familias (not really counting Bell and what he's done because plot) because of them trying to protect information such as levels and stuff. In my opinion the whole familia system is pointless; why not just let everyone freely train/interact/etc with each other? Why not have stronger familia help weaker familia? Having conflicts between familia is just wasting each others' time and effort. The end of series goal is to fight the OEBD and/or clear the dungeon, and having a free system would make that easier to achieve than relying on plot convenience like Uchide no Kozuchi </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Angelo Gabrini wrote: Being in a familia restricts how you can interact with other familias (not really counting Bell and what he's done because plot) </p> </i></div>
<p>Bell is hardly the only person we've seen that doesn't follow this implicit rule. There's Ais, Lefiya, and if you use the games, Ottar as well. I'm not very familiar with Orario Rhapsodia, but isn't there something like that there as well? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>In my opinion the whole familia system is pointless; why not just let everyone freely train/interact/etc with each other? Why not have stronger familia help weaker familia? Having conflicts between familia is just wasting each others' time and effort. The end of series goal is to fight the OEBD and/or clear the dungeon, and having a free system would make that easier to achieve than relying on plot convenience like Uchide no Kozuchi </p> </i></div>
<p>You realize that the familias are all essentially competitors right? </p><p>There is no reason in the short term for them to help each other out. It's pointless to use what we as the readers, believe to be the final goal of the series as a standard for what they're doing now. </p>