<div class="quote"><i> <p>Angelo Gabrini wrote: </p><p>It's not really clear what happened back then, people claim that they were driven out but I've heard that there are scenes that suggest otherwise (can't remember what, it's been a while since I posted about that) </p><p>Having them leave on their own would make more sense, but then the two familia being unable to act as a deterrent to crime doesn't make sense since they'd still have a decent amount of high level adventurers. It's not something they could cover up because people would know who survived </p> </i></div>
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Yeah that's why I believe that them being unable to stop evilus was just an excuse for the public and that there is more to it. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Drachenblut2 wrote: </p> Sorry but you don't understand what useful means, do you?</i></div>
<p>At least here I am referring only to fighting the OEBD. Also, you can’t take everyone just because of their abilities to help the main force. If the difference is too much they would be easily killed by the OEBD. </p> <div class="quote"><i> You are saying even the level 8 and 9 were useless? Come again?</i></div>
<p>My point is that if being useful means being able to fight the OEBD and win the Level 8 and 9 were useless since they lost. I really doubt that at least the Level 9 was able to damage it. </p> <div class="quote"><i> I never said that level 5 and 6 adventurers will defeat the oebd. That role is clearly reserved for bell. But they will help him in his fight.</i></div>
<p>They would easily be killed by the OEBD in one attack due to the big level difference, taking them would be more a drag than a help. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Rigel31415 wrote: If the difference is too much they would be easily killed by the OEBD. </p> </i></div>
<p>Yeah, but it's a risk they'll have to take, though I don't really see any named characters dying, only fodder </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>I really doubt that at least the Level 9 was able to damage it. </p> </i></div>
<p>This is something I have issues with. How was Albert able to damage it but not the Zeus/Hera Familia? Ais describes Alfia as "as strong as my father and the others", which would imply that he'd be around Alfia's level. I get that there are matchup issues but still, was Albert just lucky? It makes no sense that in both battles there's practically no information about damage dealt to the OEBD </p><p>@Rigel: Something I've noticed on here and other places is that you keep on arguing the same point without stopping to think about it. I've been guilty of that sometimes but you and sometimes Kevhunt have been the worst offenders </p>

<p>Ok I just notice that I wrote wrong. I meant that I doubt that at least the Level 9 was not able to damage it. She was weaker than the OEBD but she should had been able to deal at least some damage. </p><p>I won’t deny that sometimes I say a bit too much. I will try to correct that. </p>

<p>I just checked EF again because I know the situation with Zues and Hera being defeated and Loki and Freya taking over was mentioned. On page 351 Freya says 「私はあの女神(おんな)を頂点(あそこ) から引きずりした後、顔にワインをかけてやるつもり。そして言うの。よくも私の眷族(もの)を奪ってくれたわね。」this was while Hera was still in Orario, but after they we're defeated by the OEBD she said that she plans to drag Hera from the top of Orario, but it didn't directly show the scene. It says on the next page (352) however that in actuality Freya wasn't able to do. page 352 scene: 結論から言えばフレイヤの「意趣がえし」は彼女自身が萎えて成就ことはなかった~ Rough translation: in the end Freya was unable to fulfill her revenge. </p><p>351 Rough translation: after I drag her from there, I'll splash wine on her face and say "you have done well in taking from me what's mine (familia members) from me haven't you?" </p><p>Also Freya said that she underestimated the OEBD's strength when she lost her bet with Hera and agreed to let her familia fight with them. </p>

<p>Is the OEBD as tall as Mount Everest? Judging by the size of its scales  </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Witmsatfm wrote: Also Freya said that she underestimated the OEBD's strength when she lost her bet with Hera and agreed to let her familia fight with them. </p> </i></div>
<p>Uh, what? How would you underestimate a monster that's been around since ancient times and wiped out a group of around level 7 fighters? I don't get why she'd hold a grudge against Hera for that anyway </p>

<p>so, basically, the main arguments now revolve around the exact specifications as to how exactly the end of danmachi will come about, with the clearing of the dungeon and/or the defeat of the oebd, and who exactly could possibly do so, assuming (quite likely) no timeskips of any large amount of time (like decades or even just years).  </p><p>bell will be involved in the main fights to conclude the series, the dungeon will either be cleared, or not cleared but origins on the dungeon may be made clearer, a lot of bonds from the past involving the feuds between the different gods and separate factions may clear up and resolve, the oebd will be defeated, no matter how bell and the oebd cross paths, and the secret evil entity/entities behind much of the series' events will be defeated to conclude the story.  </p><p>above is more or less accurate, but what about bell and his female relationships? looking away from how exactly bell will conquer either the dungeon, the oebd, or both, how will his relationships with the females end up, especially between the different familias and groups? and how exactly can zeus or any other head god potentially insert themselves back into the main action in danmachi?  </p><p>personally, i'm hoping for bell to either continue his adventuring and leaving that aspect of the end at least somewhat ambiguous, or some kind of decision is made as to who he ends up with, and how he will deal with making a relationship with that person.  </p>

<div class="quote"><i>Angelo Gabrini wrote:<div class="quote"> <p>Witmsatfm wrote: Also Freya said that she underestimated the OEBD's strength when she lost her bet with Hera and agreed to let her familia fight with them. </p> </i></div>
Uh, what? How would you underestimate a monster that's been around since ancient times and wiped out a group of around level 7 fighters? I don't get why she'd hold a grudge against Hera for that anyway</div> <p>To be fair that was before the battle there was no high leveled adventures that though it if Ais's dad's group really didn't have levels, so one that could have been used as comparison.  </p><p>
I agree with what you said that it doesn't make sense for Freya to hold a grudge against Hera. I guess the alternative though would be for her to take complete responsibility for the death of her familia members and it just feels better for her to blame it on Hera to avoid 100% of the guilt that comes with her lettting them fight the dragon and them dieing in the process. </p><p>
Certain parts of EF makes it seem like Freya cares about know one but herself, but when it comes to her familia members she actually cares a lot. The book said she didn't even let Ottar fight at all in his first year in her familia, but once he started fighting he leveled up to level 2 in a year, but it technically counted as 2 years because of the year he never fought. </p>

<p>The dragon os around for about 1000 years. It should be pretty obvious that it is strong. </p><p>And about this whole "there were no gods during alberts time": </p><p>Weren't there spirits? We have seen the demi spirit, who could use many magic spells, there is the fire spirit, who gave crozzo his blood, eith which he could forge magic weapon, we have seen the great spirit jupiter, who turned into a powerfull sword, then there is aria, whose blood runs through ais. It was stated multiple times how special ais airiel is, which im fact comes from aria. And most likely, aria granted albert his power. At least part of it. </p><p>
So there are various ways how a spirit can grant people power and how spirits themselves can use power (magic). </p><p>Considering that gods watched from heaven before they descended and even interfered (minos chain and jupiter was created by zeus, so most likely argonaut gained jupiters powers through zeus because he liked his heroism) they should clearly know about the power of the oebd. At least those who watched thr lower realm like zeus. </p><p>And lastly, they are gods. So they should be able to grasp the power of the spirits, the monsters and of the ancient heros. Comparing their power with the power of their children, who have the falna of them, e.g zeus, should not be a problem. </p><p>
So if freya says, she understimated the power of the oebd, ok, I would say that back then she didm't shown any interest in the lower world so she didn't know exactly. Even this sounds somewhat ridiculous but ok. </p><p>However, what I absolutely can't accept is, saying that zeus understimated the oebd. No. That would be just bullshit. He is the hero fanatic who watched them and their foes. So he clearly should know it. So this should be considered when talking about the oebd and the familias of zeus and hera. </p>