>Finn has Hell Finnegas, automatically #2 because of that.

the difference in levels gives an advantage, but we have been shown many times that lower levels are still able to fight. stats, experience, technique, skills, magic can close the gap.

>And like OP, you are seriously underestimating Loki Familia.

FF is a pvp oriented family and its members have higher stats than LF. there is nothing surprising in the fact that they are stronger. at the beginning of volume 18, a conversation between Hedin and Finn pretty much confirms that Freya Familia > Loki Familia. it's time to come to terms with this fact

>Finn has Hell Finnegas, automatically #2 because of that.

the difference in levels gives an advantage, but we have been shown many times that lower levels are still able to fight. stats, experience, technique, skills, magic can close the gap.

>And like OP, you are seriously underestimating Loki Familia.

FF is a pvp oriented family and its members have higher stats than LF. there is nothing surprising in the fact that they are stronger. at the beginning of volume 18, a conversation between Hedin and Finn pretty much confirms that Freya Familia > Loki Familia. it's time to come to terms with this fact

>You've seen Gareth's status, right? It's easily on par with Hogni and Hedin's if not better

compare with Hedin.

strength - Gareth 375

endurance - Gareth 585

dexterity - Hedin 335

agility - Hedin 248

magic - Hedin 826, although given that Gareth's magic power is independent of his magic stat, it's 943

total - Hedin 449

compare with Hogni

strength - Gareth 28 (lol)

endurance - Gareth 468

dexterity - Hogni 338

agility - Hogni 398

magic - Hogni 599 but actually 716

total - Hogni 839

he is stronger than Hedin and his lightning bolts won't do much damage to him, but agility and dexterity are counter to strength. Gareth cannot land a direct hit and loses in an exchange of blows, so defeat

Gareth is NOT even stronger than Hogni, but he also has lower dexterity and agility, nothing to discuss here.

>and that's before his skills.

Hogni has 1 more skill and Hedin has 2 more skills. not to mention the magic

>Stats are pretty much irrelevant as long as we talk about people on the same level.

no more than 200-300 points of Argana and Bache, which they received at level 6, became enough advantage to make a difference and be clearly felt. it's not hard to guess that over 500 points would mean a big gap. not to mention that you yourself know that stats can surpass the level because Lefiya exists. Thus, there is nothing surprising in the fact that the difference between low lvl 6 and high lvl 6 will be no less, if not more, than the difference between high lvl 5 and low lvl 6.

>Example of it is how Gareth can roughly keep up with Finn in terms of speed

only Riveria is said to "keep up" with Finn's speed, not Gareth's. and this is a rather broad concept, since we know that an adventurer is able to keep up with the movements of another even with a difference in levels. but there is a reverse example, which I have already mentioned a thousand times: Gareth was several times stronger than Finn using Hell Finegas, punching through the roots of the half-spirit, which Finn could barely scratch when paired with Bete.

although I don't agree that it's not a "big deal", yes, tactics, technique and experience will often be more important. It's not that Freya's family lacks any of that compared to Loki's, but they also have the addition of stats. it means an advantage

also: "Dormul was losing his ability to keep up with Bell with each passing moment. Every swing hit nothing but empty air, and the boy was taking advantage of even more openings for counterattacks.

The white rabbit’s hit-and-run tactics. Dormul’s

frustrated howls as he swayed to and fro.

Bell’s Agility—his speed was on a different level."

@Stracher12

For people of the same level and without other boosts, yes.

Gareth also has Fist Strike and Crush, DAs that even if we don't know their effects it pretty much sounds like they boost his attack power. The latter is also at rank E. Plus, there is also Gareth's skill, which boost his Strength by a large amount. Of course Gareth's high Strength stat helps, but it is clear that his insane strength is largely due to his other abilities that further boost it.

his skill at best makes him low lvl 7, but Finn is with Hell Finegas too. as for DA, you yourself understand that it does not affect enough to allow Gareth to be stronger than Finn by 5 times. so stats were decisive

@IkariSon Magic against Gareth is useless, not even Welf's magic swords that are as strong as Riveria's magic could affect him, so whatever magic Hedin or Hogni have will be useless against him.

Hogni vastly surpasses him in dexterity and speed, but Gareth in strength and endurance considering his abilities, so Hogni being able to beat Gareth in hand-to-hand combat is possible, although the opposite is equally possible, how would we know? You say that you are not a Freya fan but those assumptions that you always make in favor of Freya contradict your words.

>Magic against Gareth is useless

I know

>Hogni vastly surpasses him in dexterity and speed, but Gareth in strength and endurance considering his abilities, so Hogni being able to beat Gareth in hand-to-hand combat is possible, although the opposite is equally possible, how would we know?

endurance doesn't really matter. even a person 2 levels higher will be on the verge of death after a direct hit with a sword. and the fight won't last long enough for stamina to matter. As far as Strength is concerned, Gareth "might be" stronger due to skill, but we don't know Hogni's skills. at the same time, dexterity and agility are easy for Hogni. to understand how it will look, re-read the fight between Bell and Dormul.

>You say that you are not a Freya fan but those assumptions that you always make in favor of Freya contradict your words.

you say this when we discuss the battle of the fast against the strong, and literally the entire LN shows us time after time that the fast wins. although if you look only from the point of view of statistics, then Hogni is not even inferior to Gareth in the Strength. I can't do anything about Omori making FF stronger than LF. Hedin and Hogni's status alone, which are higher than the LF elite, is enough to judge that they are better. and their achievements are also quite huge.

@IkariSon When Bell fought Dormul they were both level 3, but Bell who has always excelled in speed could have already had a level 4 speed, a difference in level is overwhelming, but Hogni's speed over Gareth is not enough to talk about a difference in level, so he wouldn't be overwhelmed by Hogni.

Also, it was explained that Bell was dominating Dormul due to his superior combat prowess thanks to the technique he got from his master Ais (level 6), but could Hogni be said to have far superior combat prowess than Gareth? If you think so, tell us what the source is because I doubt it exists.

And since you bring up our previous talk, I gave you as a counter argument to your position that the fast always beat the strong, the battle between Gareth and Bringar, you never explained how Gareth got out of that fight alive if your argument is true, you always responded with evasions, then it would be opportune that you clarify it.

Other fact, you say that endurance is not very relevant because someone who has received a critial blow is beaten, but remember that Gareth received the demi-spirit's blow that pierced his chest and he could conitnue fighting, then would you still say that endurance is irrelevant? and could Hogni keep fighting if his chest is pierced?

You're right that by not knowing what Hogni's abilities consist of, he could have some super powerful, but if you consider that he lost to Ryuu, that doesn't seem to be the case, because if he had it, he would have used it.

Another thing you didn't want to answer either, if Hogni is so good, why does he resort to cheating like cursed weapons to win? this fact casts doubt on his ability, he is like an athlete who resorts to doping to win.

In conclusion, it is not clear who is better than who, it is possible that not even the author knows because he has not decided, I say this because I find it extremely particular and curious that he always systematically avoids confrontations between those we are debating, therefore, it is soon for such judgments.

@Leinad91

Magic isn't completely useless against Gareth. That he could endure it doesn't mean he wasn't hurt at all. You have also to consider that it was stated that if Riveria actually put more effort in her magic.

>When Bell fought Dormul they were both level 3, but Bell who has always excelled in speed could have already had a level 4 speed, a difference in level is overwhelming, but Hogni's speed over Gareth is not enough to talk about a difference in level, so he wouldn't be overwhelmed by Hogni.

the level difference can be overcome with stats alone, and you don't even have to be Bell to do it, so yes, Hogni can.

>but could Hogni be said to have far superior combat prowess than Gareth?

since Hogni is fighting for first place with Ottar among FF, then yes, he is.

【フレイヤ • ファミリア】の中で 一 、二の白兵戦を持つヘグニだけが飛び込める穴が確かに存在する

it has been repeatedly mentioned that he has a huge fighting talent, and has had more time to hone his technique than Gareth lives. and FF is more pvp oriented than LF. LN even explicitly states that FF first-class adventurers are different from other families' first-class adventurers.

>you never explained how Gareth got out of that fight alive

I'm not Omori. he will give an explanation when needed

>Gareth received the demi-spirit's blow that pierced his chest and he could conitnue fighting

indiscriminate attack on different parts of the body is different from a targeted attack at a vulnerable point with unprecedented accuracy and desire to kill

>and could Hogni keep fighting if his chest is pierced?

he literally did in AR1. and before you say that he was in a losing position because of it, then yes, he bled and would lose in time, but until the very end he never showed signs of actually losing. in volume 18, he gets a huge burn from Ryuu and several of his bones break, and he also has very little magic and stamina, but even in this state, he first puts up a joke fight with Hedin, and then seriously fights with Allen, and he does not can defeat him until use magic. that is, Hogni has already shown twice that even with serious injuries, he is very strong. survivability depends on willpower, not endurance stat.

>he lost to Ryuu, that doesn't seem to be the case, because if he had it, he would have used it.

he lost to Ryuu due to a state where he barely has the strength to hold a sword in his hands. guess what skills or magic he can use in this state? From start to finish, Hogni didn't take Ryuu seriously, letting her do what she wanted without getting in her way and calling her a little girl. when she had already sung her magic, which he allowed her to sing, he still continued to dominate. i.e., it's not an opponent that you can use something powerful against, and then he didn't have the strength to use it. remember, for example, the skill of Ryuu Mind Load herself, it literally consumes mana for its use. Hogni may be the same.

>why does he resort to cheating like cursed weapons to win?

everyone has their trump cards. Hogni's pure prowess still rivals Ottar and easily second in Orario. using the cursed sword gives him another buff, but that's not the core of his power. it's the same as asking, if ais is good at killing monsters, then why would she need an Avenger (which is a much bigger cheat than a cursed weapon)? she's like an athlete who resorts to doping to win.