There is no indicator at all that Oomori shifted from making the comparison with Ariel using Ariel to Ais using Ariel and Avenger. That is a baseless assumption.

Hati may increase Bete's durability, but that doesn’t really help him against Ais' attacks, as she uses a sword, not a blunt force weapon. And you are assuming that he wouldn’t be injured by her, which is not a certainty. The flames would also still be injuring him, so the chip away his endurance thing would still be at play.

And like I proved above with the Tione vs Argana example, just because a boost is powerful it doesn’t it is so to an insane degree.

Ais was also dominating UnK Phryne, even without Ariel. In fact, the only reason she couldn’t finish her off was because of the quality of her weapon. Not saying she is on par with Bete with beastification, of course, but that shows she isn’t too far behind either. Oomori also had Bete clarify that he beastified is stronger than Ais without Ariel, which is obviously his way of saying that Ais with Ariel is still stronger.

As for Hati theorically not having a limit, yes, that’s great, but that doesn’t mean he counts as stronger than Ais with Avenger just because he can endlessly become stronger. Allen’s magic is also potentially able to grow without limit, yet the actual strongest is still clearly Ottar.

As allen keeps running, it should have impact on both his legs(the strain) and consume his stamina the more he runs. alongwith his magic that is sustained.

Bete's hati exploded at one point against filvis. am assuming that when he reached his limit with hati, it exploded.

@Rigel31415 accepted. oomori never said that he was making a comparison with ariel + avenger. my bad on making that assumption.

My basis for beastification buff is simple.

Oomori tends to use the word heavy and massive separately.

He uses heavy when describing avenger effects against normal monsters. he uses heavy when describing tiona's intense heat.

He uses massive with tione's backdraft. he uses massive with avenger against dragons.

He uses massive with beastification.

He uses massive with hell finnegas.

And my basis for my assumption

He uses massive for lubrude bequia that alise had. she was describe to be a match for a higher level.

My second basis is when bete beat the crap out of phyrne. yes ais was winning without airiel but bete destroyed her.

Having said that, how is ais with ariel stronger than bete with beastification and hati? bete outsped ais when she was chasing him without beastifying. while she was using ariel in volume 8 of SO.

Also, what exactly is white wind? is it special spirit wind or just avenger tempest wind without the hatred? i know it was used in SO12 but da heck is it?

@Rigel31415

There is no indicator at all that Oomori shifted from making the comparison with Ariel using Ariel to Ais using Ariel and Avenger. That is a baseless assumption.

The context was fighting monster from the start. In that particular scene with Asterious, Ais was using Avenger as stated in SO10. Besides, if Omori already said that Bete could defeat Ais in a pure duel with the advantage of his boots eat wind, why is Bete with both those insane boosts only probably stronger than Ais? I also already said that Omori is comparing Bete with 2 boosts to a monster killing Ais in terms of power alone. It's not a statement predicting who will be the winner if they clash in their best conditions.

Hati may increase Bete's durability, but that doesn’t really help him to endure Ais' attacks, as she uses a sword, not a blunt force weapon. And you are just assuming that he wouldn’t be injured by her.

If you want to assume this is a real duel between Bete with 2 boosts and Ais with Ariel then fine. Bete with beastification alone should have been enough to endure Ais's attack with his dual swords. Meanwhile, Hati will keep sucking her wind and use it as Bete power. Ais trying to defend against Bete with her wind will also have her wind taken away. There's not a single possibility for Ais to win. And if Ais can actually defeat Bete so fast that the flame can not grow enough, then it is an entire difference in level. It would mean that Bete with both boosts still has a level equivalent gap to Ais. It is frankly ridiculous. Not to mention, he still has his human fighting technique and experience, along with magic resistance development ability to resist Ais' wind. Bete in that state has all kinds of advantages against Ais, and if Ariel is so powerful it can cover them, it would mean Ariel is equal or more than a level boost.

Allen’s magic is also potentially able to grow without limit, yet the actual strongest is still clearly Ottar.

Ottar can beastify to become a level 8 in power. It is 2 level gap.

By the way, in vol 18, Bell was boosted by both UnK and Laurus Hildr, which has Ariel equivalent power, fully heals the target, increases reaction/perception, and has lighting enchantment to penetrate the opponent's defense. This is 100% a better version of Ariel. And yet, Bell, who should have been able to easily defeat Allen if Ariel is truly that powerful, has to run away from him. Both characters and the narrator said that Bell can not win. It's over if Allen caught up. How do you explain this?

Bell was exhausted. he had used a 5 minute argo vesta. then spent time getting beat up by ottarl. then spent time trying to fight ottar and getting beat up by him. then got healed by ryu but did not recover energy. then fought ottarl. then along with ryu and mia, lost to base ottarl. then fought ottarl with mia ryu and hedin. then got his ass handed to him by beastified ottarl. then did another 1 minute argo punch. also, while laurus hildr heals the target, it does not restore stamina. bell was super exhausted. with that. all he could do was run away.

If Bell was that exhausted, how can he outrun Allen? If he could run that fast, he still had enough stamina. Besides, there was no line indicating exhaustion in that competition in speed. It was Bell and Allen running with everything they have.

Beats me how he ran. but as far as i remember, he did not drink a single potion i think. could be wrong. but i believe it was established that he was exhausted.

@Longhatruong , Exhaustion and injuries are the only logical cause to run away from Allen, although Laurus Hildr has a healing effect, it's not said to be full and instant.

Bell was able to fight level 8 Ottar hand-to-hand during a section of the battle, so Allen would have been easily defeated by him if Bell had retained the physical condition he had in that clash with Ottar.

In addition, the narration says that given Bell's physical condition he could not win against Allen, which is totally logical, how is Bell going to end up unscathed after colliding with the bestialized Ottar?

But since you bring up the subject of Laurus Hildr which is equivalent to Ariel we see that these give an almost full level boost, Ottar surpassed Bell by 3 levels, with Uchide no Kozuchi he eliminates 1, with his super stats he eliminates another (under expectations more optimistic), so the rest of the difference had to be covered by Laurus Hildr, and it's a gap of practically 1 whole level. In that order of ideas, Laurus Hildr/Ariel give a boost of almost a full level so it is not surprising that it is equivalent to the sum of Hati and Úlfheðinn.

Regarding the exploits of each one against Filvis and Revis, the fact is that you cannot deny that Bete with Hati and UnK lost, he used Hati's explosion as a last resort against Filvis but she survived the attack and if it weren't for Lefiya it would have been the end of Bete.

On the other hand, Revis, despite her condition, counts as an adventurer since she had a human form and fought with a sword, so strictly speaking it was a duel between adventurers, so Ais couldn't use her greatest prowess against monsters against her, she had to limit herself to using her prowess against people.

You say that Ais won due to her greater prowess since she turned off Avenger, that's impossible, without Avenger Ais's status would be level 6 and since you look down on Ariel it wouldn't even be level 6 high, so even if Ais was better than her dad, with that status she could not defeat a high level 7, the level weighs much more than the prowess in Danmachi.

In conclusion, for Ais to be able to destroy Revis with an accurate attack on the magic stone, yes, she needed the prowess to do it but she also needed the strength and speed to execute it, that is, level 7 status that could only come from Ariel, because Ais has nothing else, which is consistent with the introduction of the white wind.

It is therefore shown that Ariel allows Ais to defeat a high level 7, so there is nothing strange about that she is probably better than Bete using Hati and Úlfheðinn together.

@Rigel31415, The narration doesn't explicitly say that Bete used Úlfheðinn against Allen, but if she mentions that the moon shone behind Bete's back, I doubt Omori mentioned the detail of the moon simply to decorate the scenery.

@Leinad91

rest of the difference had to be covered by Laurus Hildr, and it's a gap of practically 1 whole level

Laurus Hildr can not break this gap. That's why Bell admitted that he could not beat Ottar alone. Besides, the reason Ottar's defense was broken is due to the lightning enchantment electrocuting him.

Laurus Hildr/Ariel give a boost of almost a full level

Don't both you and I agree that Ariel doesn't reach a full-level boost? If Ariel is actually anywhere close to that, why would she think she couldn't beat Hogni? There are still the first 2 Revis fights as well. Ais with her max lv 5 potential was overwhelmed by Revis even with her wind. However, once she reached lv 6, she could easily do that even without the wind. This is totally proof that Ariel is nowhere close to a level boost.

since you look down on Ariel it wouldn't even be level 6 high

I agree that she can be a high level 6 with Ariel. I just disagree Ariel is anywhere close to both Hati and Beastification combined.

the fact is that you cannot deny that Bete with Hati and UnK lost, he used Hati's explosion as a last resort against Filvis but she survived the attack and if it weren't for Lefiya it would have been the end of Bete.

I also said that Bete couldn't manage to burn her magic stone, and Filvis is an immortal monster that won't die as long as her magic stone is still intact.

You say that Ais won due to her greater prowess since she turned off Avenger

I never said it is due to her greater prowess. I say that the scene only proves Ais's ability in killing monsters at most because it is unthinkable she could do something she couldn't do with Avenger. Besides, if you reread the scene again, you will see that Revis was taken by surprise by Ais canceling Avenger and not that Ais displayed any spectacular power with Ariel. After Grand Bell Argonaut canceled Ais' Avenger, everything ended in one shot. it's also not surprising that Ais' attack can harm someone who is at 1 higher level than her, especially in Revis's case where the magic stone was cut.

You keep bringing up these scenes, but what are you trying to prove with it, especially when not even you think that Ariel can give a full level boost? Bete with UnK and Hati was not able to beat Filvis, and Ais with Ariel-Avenger couldn't beat Revis either. Not to mention, someone who usually complains about plot armor like you definitely notices that what happened to Filvis is a plot convenience to make Lefiya the one who finished her off. The same could be said for Ais's case, she should have just beat Revis with Ariel-Avenger, but Avenger needs to be removed by Bell for plot. Unless you want to tell me that Ariel alone is enough and there's no need for Avenger.

it's not said to be full and instant.

I'm pretty sure about the fully heal part, but maybe it's actually a hyperbole.

@Longhatruong

Laurus Hildr and Ariel don't give a full level boost, but they're enough to get someone with a low status to a high status, on the brink of the next level, like when Ais held against level 7 Revis or Bell against level 8 Ottar, for which It's not surprising that multiple skills are needed to equalize their effects, that's my thesis.

Ais can't beat Hogni because he is better than her, it's as simple as that, even if Ais used Ariel and had a high level 6 status equal to or even better than Hogni's, when the statuses are similar there combat prowessdoes weigh more than status.

The first battle against Revis doesn't prove anything, since much later Ottar explained that Ais had no chance of winning against opponents that she perceived as people, it was a psychological barrier that she surpassed thanks to him. Keep in mind that the same Ais that was defeated by Revis faced and defeated level 6 Udaeus, and I highly doubt that Revis was stronger than Udaeus considering how easily Finn defeated her.

I continue to mention those fights because they provide us with a direct comparison between their capacities, the narration says that although Bete managed to put pressure on Filvis, in general he was never in a dominant position and that he had help and was using UnK that is better than Úlfheðinn.

Also because it shows us that although Hati can strengthen him infinitely in theory, his resistance has a limit, when he reached it he had to launch his final blow with the hope of finishing off Filvis, otherwise, he would have continued receiving damage until his power exceeded Filvis's, but clearly he couldn't do it, so expectations must be managed regarding how much Hati can really strengthen him.

Ais's case is very different, since she was in the dominant position the whole time by using tempest-avenger, and she could have finished off Revis but it was said that "the black flame" would consume her to the point of no return in that case, that's why Bell had to save her.

But regardless of that, we saw that Bete with UnK and Hati was not stronger than Ais nor Hati could strengthen him enough to make it, and if we replace UnK with Úlfheðinn Bete will be in a worse position in the comparison.

Therefore, it is enough evidence to conclude that Hati plus Úlfheðinn aren't nearly as powerful as Ariel plus Avenger, so Omori's tweet can only refer to an exclusive comparison with Ariel.

Regarding whether Ariel alone can give her more power than Tempest-Avenger, the scene indicates that the white wind is more powerful than the black wind, so the preliminary answer would be yes, but this question remains pending, this is due to the damn habit that Omori has for omitting information, we don't know in which specific cases Ais can use it or if she acquired a new skill or if Avenger was modified, in short, many doubts about it.

What is clear is that in the final clash between Ais and Revis both gave their best and since Ais emerged victorious it must be that she somehow exerted a level 7 power because with one of level 6 she would never win in such a clash.

Finally, if Bete had finished off Filvis, at least there would be a reasonable doubt that perhaps Hati makes him as powerful as Ais and the issue would remain open, but plot convenience or not, things went another way, so from the evidence, it cannot be concluded that Bete can be compared to Ais when she uses avenger in no case.

@Leinad91 "Ottar's bestialization, Finn's Hell Finegas and Ais's Ariel, have allowed them to overcome the level gap but because they were already at the upper limit of their respective level, it wouldn't have been like that if they had low stats"

Isn't that just supposition though?

"If it were possible to have skills that give a full level boost, Uchide no Kozuchi wouldn't be such a valuable magic"

Uchide no Kuzochi is just Omori's way of making the defeat of the OEBD possible. Actually, taking into account how strong Zeus and Hera were, if Orario doesn't at the very least have a level 10 they are screwed