Lefiya vs Luke seems pretty trash to me tbh

@Pluton9, what I mean with Lefiya is that the fact that she can become a good magic swordsman, starting her training in this as a level 4, proves that what is really important for falna is the level, not the statistics of previous levels.

Think about it, if the statistics of previous levels really had an impact on power, Lefiya would not have standard level 4 strength, in all her previous levels her strength did not exceed rank I presumably, so physically she would be too weak to fight in close combat, and the same for her other 3 statistics.

Then Lefiya would be a swordswoman, weaker, slower, clumsier and more vulnerable than any other swordsman with a status similar to hers, which means that fighting as a swordswoman she will always lose, therefore, it would be too late for her to adopt this approach to combat.

But in SO13, we saw that as a magical swordswoman she was quite good, yes, she used her magic, but not to defeat Luke, but to disarm him and end the fight. It was the way to defeat him without hurting him, like she wanted.

In conclusion, if Lefiya is a magic swordswoman at the height of what is expected of a level 4, that proves that what really matters is the level and statistics of the current level, not the statistics of previous levels.

As for Bell, it is the only case where we have seen that the statistics of previous levels did have a notable effect, for obvious reasons, however, despite his gigantic numbers, we saw that he was no match for Tiona or Tione, which shows that even with gigantic statistics, the level continues to weigh more.

You say it was because he hadn't synchronized, maybe you're right, but I wouldn't bet on it, we'll know it when Bell, as a level 5, faces a level 6 again and we'll see if he beats him, then we'll definitely know what is what weighs the most for the falna.

@Leinad91

S0 13 made it clear that every attack from Luke could deal lethal damage, even in their fight Lefiya mostly dodged Luke's attack by predicting his move using her experience with Bete and Ais rather than counterattacking.

Think about it, if the statistics of previous levels really had an impact on power, Lefiya would not have standard level 4 strength, in all her previous levels her strength did not exceed rank I presumably, so physically she would be too weak to fight in close combat, and the same for her other 3 statistics.

Did you read Lefiya stats before writing that ?

That's Lefiya stat 4 months 20 days before level up : I86 H184 G210 G271 has you can see she has only 1 at rank I. (I only use those because only her final Magic stat at Level 3 is know)

But in SO13, we saw that as a magical swordswoman she was quite good, yes, she used her magic, but not to defeat Luke, but to disarm him and end the fight. It was the way to defeat him without hurting him, like she wanted.

Reaching victory because of superior fighting experience and strategy is not the same as winning because of your ability.

In conclusion, if Lefiya is a magic swordswoman at the height of what is expected of a level 4, that proves that what really matters is the level and statistics of the current level, not the statistics of previous levels.

After winning against a Level 3 ? when Lefiya was know to be able to beat a minotor when she was level 3 ? Even the narration define Lefiya swordmanship as "at most a half-hanger".

It was not explained very well in the paragraph, I did not mean that he had everything in rank I, but that her physical statistics were quite low in her 3 previous levels, we see that as level 3 she barely obtained rank G. There is no reason to think that her stats as a level 1 and 2 were better, since it is known that until now she started training her body for melee combat, before she was a dedicated mage, so it's a reasonable assumption.

To dodge attacks, even if you can predict them, you need enough speed, reflexes, and physical dexterity to move your body with optimal precision. If we apply the logic that the real value of each statistic is the sum of its value in all previous levels, Luke would be faster and more skilled than Lefiya if he obtained only 500 points in these statistics, for a total of 1500 in total, more than what Lefiya adds in agility for example, but the narrative tells us that is not the case, Lefiya was the fastest and most dexterous, so the level is what is really important.

Even at level 3 Lefiya (4 months before Level up & without magic) was still able to defeat a minotaur so defeating Luke a Level 3 at Level 4 is just the continuation of her physical ability.

It would be better to compar Lefiya to a true magic swordman of her level to see the difference but that's just my opinion.

@Rigel31415

I mean, Bell is good at running away. Bell was able to run away from a Level 3 Lefiya at Level 1, and the reason given was that he just knows how to run away. There's no point in speed, because even shortening the distance, it takes time to find Bell after he disappears around a corner, and he's just better at overcoming obstacles in his path than the others. That's how he escaped from someone 2 Levels above him. So even a high Level 1 Bell could probably escape from almost any Level 3 Amazon in Ishtar Familia, and a Level 2 Bell would do it guaranteed. His Level 3 status gives him a lot of room for maneuver, besides just getting faster than other Level 3s. So this case cannot be used as proof of his pure speed.

I've already said that I don't deny the fact that Bell wasn't in perfect condition, but that can't be used as a reason to disregard a difference like the difference between Levels. Yes, it won't be complete, but it will still be huge, and Bell didn't show that in any way in the fight, Aisha had no problem keeping up with him. There's a difference between having Aisha demonstrate that she can surpass his huge Agility advantage with other stats and experience, but the thing is, it's never even hinted that Bell was faster than her, meaning they both just had similar stats. And no, the Hyacinth example can't be used because Hyacinth clearly states that Bell was faster than him even though he's Level 3, while there's nothing like that in the battle with Aisha. At this point it just seems like you're trying to make up something that doesn't exist, just to fit the case of Phryne.

I don't recall any group of three Level 2 adventurers with G in their basic abilities making it to the 18th floor. But in any case, coming to the 18th floor and mopping up the 17th floor are not the same thing. Minotaurs can be encountered by the dozens, but they are rare occurrences. You can use items like the stink bag, or just avoid large groups of minotaurs to get to the 18th floor safely. And of course, you can't get too many stats in the early Levels, so when talking about stats being able to surpass Level sooner or later, I was talking about something starting at Level 3 or 4.

The case of Zard and Alfia doesn't fit. Empress was Level 9, and Maxim was stronger than her, meaning he also had at least Level 9 battle prowess, so that's a difference of 2 Levels, not 1. I read the spoilers for AR3, and it said that Riveria's Vas Windheim is able to surpass the difference between Levels when she at Level 5 almost kills a Level 7 monster, even though we know that even her Rea Lavatein can surpass a difference of 1 Level. So Omori writes about the three of them "can surpass the Level difference" as something very impressive, only when they surpass the 2 Level difference. That's not the same as a 1 Level difference.

Being able to keep up with someone is a case that is possible even with a difference in Level. I think you'll agree that even Level 5 can serve as support in a battle against Level 6, because he won't be killed immediately. Ryuu was able to hold off Ais for a few minutes, and Tsubaki can stand her ground against the Loki Familia leaders. Ais even faced off against Levis and could inflict deep wounds on her, though she was defeated in SO7. The fact that one Level 6 can fight shoulder to shoulder with another Level 6 is really nothing special. Even Aki could probably fight effectively at Finn's pace, let alone Gareth.

We don't know Luke's stats, and that's the main problem. Everyone who isn't a first class adventurer has a status that goes to B at best, but even that doesn't apply to all stats, only the best. The fact that Luke was claimed to be the best among the students of the School District actually means little within Orario, whose adventurers are named the strongest in the world. The students lack either experience or talent, a group of several Tier 2s can only reach floor 12, while a group of Morda, considered weak, can reach floor 18. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Luke's stats are in the 400 to 700 range, where 700 is just his Dexterity, seriously. This is definitely not the example of stats vs Level that I had in mind. Her winning at the same levels matters little as long as she's allowed to use magic and has a lot more experience than Luke.

Level 7 c Asterius could have given them a good fight, but Level 7 Levis was defeated by the same team in a matter of seconds. Admittedly, Levis like Asterius don't have experience comparable to a first-class adventurer, instead relying on their brute strength, so there shouldn't have been such a difference. My only theory: Asterius fought Tiona, Tione, and Bete, and his resilience (whatever that means) was enough that Bete couldn't move him much. At the same time, Levis was knocked off balance by Bete's kick, becoming open to Tiona and Tione. Although Tione only inflicted wounds on her, Tiona cut off her entire arm. In that case, the only factor that saved Asterius was being able to resist Bete's off-balance kick, which worked against Levis. Slightly unusual conditions, but it seems that the creature's mass did have an impact in this case, and there are questions about how many hundreds of tons Asterius weighs. Perhaps not a mass per se, but something of the sort of unconscious repetition of Ottar's movements that specializes in defense. Despite Asterius' admittedly lack of technique, Tiona and the others saw a shadow of Ottar in him, but there was nothing similar with Levis.

Bell think this when his Status actually refers to Level 6. So he's just confusing the difference between Level 5 and 4 and Level 6 and 4. The funny detail is that Bell always treats himself as a normal member of his Level, still not understanding his Stats.

It is not enough just to have a reaction speed higher than the opponent's movement speed, otherwise the faster one would be better than the more experienced one absolutely always, for he sees all his possible attacks. There are also such things as techniques and tactics that include blind spot attacks and reflex deception moves (Making the opponent think you are hitting with this punch, focusing his attention on it, but then throwing a real punch that the opponent is not ready for. Essentially just a deceptive movement). In the moment when Bell can't follow Hyacinth with her eyes, the technique is even explicitly mentioned. Even Juggernaut is stated as dangerous to Zard and Alfia simply because they have no information about him, but if they survive the first 20 seconds, they are guaranteed to defeat him, confirming that surprise is indeed an important factor in combat.

I've read spoilers from this this Wiki, so I'm fairly confident in what I'm about to say now. It was said that Finn and the others Leveled up right after the events of SO12, but it wasn't revealed until SO14. We didn't realize it before, but timeline suggests that Gareth was already Level 7 at the time of their fight. And even given that fact, we weren't shown their fight as well as the others in MS17, so it hardly matters.

@Leinad91

As far as I know, Bell didn't adapt to the new Level and fought both at the same time, so it doesn't matter.

@Pluton9, It would be an excellent way to clear up doubts, to see how Lefiya performs against another level 4 swordsman and based on her performance, we would know if what matters is the level or the previous statistics.

Loki and Lefiya's conversation makes it pretty clear that past Levels Stats are so important that if adventurers of the same Level clash, the one with better past Level Stats is guaranteed to win if their other aspects are equal. Therefore, Lefiya would lose to any Level 4 warrior in close combat.

And Lefiya isn't even a regular mage, Bete's spartan methods and a bit of training with Ais has effectively given her experience commensurate with at least a Level 2 warrior. Important clarification that this applies to Orario adventurers. Academy students are too rarely practiced, and their groups are forced to explore floors much higher than groups of Orario adventurers of the same Level. They have theory, but no practice.

One thing is theory and another is practice, yes, the theory says that they do matter but is there really any case/example where we have seen that an adventurer was superior to another in some statistics due to their statistics from previous levels?

I clarify that Bell is not a valid case for demonstration, since his gigantic statistics constitute his exclusive power as a main character, and since no one else can match his condition, it is a particular case that cannot be brought to generality.

Also, we have no way of knowing if Lefiya would lose to any level 4 warrior in close combat, you're making this up. In fact, this scenario would constitute the ultimate test of this matter, if she is physically completely surpassed, then yes, the statistics of previous levels have an influence, but if not, then what really matters is the level and the previous statistics are irrelevant.

However, I don't think this scenario will happen, as it would clarify an issue that Omori has deliberately kept ambiguous throughout the series, and I don't think he's in the business of bringing precision to his system.

A bit late but if stats of previous level don't matter or matter negligent amount, then why do people bother maxing them out if they can in the first place?