@Rigel31415

Hmm, that's odd, considering how much they crammed into Bell's head with all that time at folkvangr. However, he is in no way a novice and inexperienced combatant anymore and further training with Hedin and Lyu should mend this shortcoming.

While he isn't comparable at the moment in terms of technique and experience when it comes to the FF and LF, he'll get there.

@Rigel31415

The reason I called Tione a maybe was because she fall from exhaustion right after Finn give his little speech while Argana has still the endurance to survive a punch From Finn using Hell Finegas. So as far I am concerned the winner is uncertain.

Also I was purely talking of Bell in term of raw ability not combat ability that Bell will lose because of technique & experience gap, the same raw ability that the narration confirmed being superior to Ryuu in MS 15. As for the argument Van, remember he is from Freya Familia, that fact alone crown him by the narrative as having combat power superior to the other level 4 of other factions. Beside Bell classified Asterius technic & tactics as superior to him while Loki Familia who specialized in teams work noted. it would have been an easy win if it was for Tione rampage preventing them 3 to coordinates.

Tione was indeed exhausted but Tiona also had to push herself to her absolute limits in order to pull off her win, so I do not see how that puts her victory into question. Argana was also explicity stated to be in her limit, so what evidence do you have that Tione didn't still have as much fight to give in her as Argana. The fact that in the previous scene the balance had inclined towards Tione I'd say is quite telling.

There is a reason the term retcon exists. I was an avid defender of Bell punching above his level, but considering how things have been recently I think it is pretty clear Oomori changed that. Considering he didn't like how fast Bell was growing, Oomori setting him back makes sense.

Bell didn't recognize Asterius' skill as better than his in any way, only as superior to Asterius' own from his past life:

Again and again, the Labrys threatened his life, but still Bell made his way around to his opponent’s right side and aimed his knife above the spot where his missing right arm had been. But the minotaur saw through his plan. His skill and tactics were far sharper than what Bell remembered from their past encounter. A feeling similar to impatience gnawed at him.

It was explicity said a couple of times that Asterius' skill is nothing special at all. Bell, for as laughably inferior as he is to first class adventurers, was stated in DM8 to be comparable in terms of skill to a "veteran Level 3". So he is more skilled than Asterius. Meanwhile, by the narrative (as you say), Bete, Tiona, and Tione are way more skilled than Van, as they are first class adventurers and executives of the second strongest faction.

So if anything the gap between Asterius and the Loki young executives was worse than the one between Bell and Van. Yet a one level gap was all it took for Asterius to be utterly stronger. And yes, I know if Tione coordinated with Bete and Tiona they would have won, but that's not the point.

The point is that a one level gap sufficed for Asterius to be absolutely better than any of them individually; so much so he could face the three of them at the same time. Whether they coordinate or not fighting three people at the same time is obviously harder than fighting either of them alone. So that further illustrates how massive the gap between Asterius and any of them was.

Just the factual evidence of looking at those fight outcome, we have 1 twin that managed to win even if it was by a paper thin margin, while the other has a third party inviting himself & claiming victory. The former is indisputable (Tiona vs Bache : Tiona victory (while the latter (TIone vs Argana : Finn victory) is just a maybe where the winner can only be confirmed if Omori write a what if scenerio or respond in a twitter post.

I will avoid calling something a retcon before having more concrete which in this mean Van actual strength because as far the show & level progress the number of peoples able to go above their current level for whatever reason has only be increasing. Furthermore pulling a retcon isn't in Omori ability, anything that mess too much will trigger his editor who will directly reject the scenerio & force a writing.

Not that it would make sense when in the FC Ryuu 2 Omori made Astrea said this kind of line "it would have been better to wait you max this stat to S but time is running". As long he consider that previous stat matter retconning Bell while also giving him final stat that let the reader ask why he hasn't double level up isn't an option.

Being a veteran doesn't automatically mean Dormul is above the average combat ability of a Level 3 the level 4 shart coupled with Aisha & Raul status card give a good idea of the kind of power gap in fighting ability existing between 1st & 2nd rate combattant.

Ryu > Aisha ≧ Falgar > Aki > Asfi (without magic items) > Raul

This is roughly how he can be thought of as fighting abilities.

リュー＞アイシャ≧ファルガー＞アキ＞アスフィ（※魔道具なし）＞ラウル

戦闘能力はおおよそこのようなイメージ。

Also the total stats gap between MS 8 Bell stats & MS10 bell is less than 900 points so it can be that Bell superior ability & tendency to fight adversary stronger than him have diminish the gap in experience & technic between him & Dormul.

The grace of the fight was that Tione, unlike Tiona, was going for the kill. Oomori wanted to do both that and for her to not actually kill Argana, so of course he had someone interrumpt it. But well, I guess we won't agree in this, and it isn't even the main point.

Retcons aren't something that actually needs skill. I mean, yeah, a good and seamless one requires it, but not all retcons are executed well. Both the narration and characters directly called Floor 59 the lowest reached by Zeus and Hera. Now it turns out it was actually Floor 71. Finn didn't know how Ottar reached Level 7, but now it is a feat literally all the city saw. DM8 has a scene where Horn and Freya are on the outskirts of Orario while Syr is far into the city.

If Van had an ability to push his status past his actual level Oomori would have said it. Back when Alfia and Zald debuted them being Level 7 was more than enough reason to explain their overwhelming superiority. Yet the next day Oomori went ahead and revealed they had a status above their level because he wanted to. And Oomori made some some tweets after the release of DM17, so it's not that he was against revealing things there.

Also even among the executies the only one who has a level boosting ability is Ottar, and his is an active one with its downsides. Ottar, who is meant to be a cut above the rest even among all the "cuts above the rest" that current first class adventurers are. Van could possibly even be the strongest low-member of Freya Familia, but he is still just that: a low-member. I do not see Oomori giving such a secondary character a skill equal to, much less better, than that of a major character.

I also do not get why people take Oomori's editor for some form of dictator. Of course, they do impose to some degree, but ultimately authors are the ones who decide how to go. Oomori knew GA Bunko would be angry that he revealed Bell's lineage in DanMemo and they did, but he still went ahead with the idea.

In-universe stats from past levels matter, but for practical purposes they don't. Oomori has every now and then thrown terms like "mid Level 4 tier" and "high Level 7 tier". You can't really have "tiers" if stats gap can vary widely, especially at higher levels. In SO6 Argana and Bache are directly said to have higher stats by sheer virtue of having reached Level 6 before Tiona and Tione, which shouldn't be such a deciding factor if stats from five past levels mattered.

Gareth can move roughly as fast as Finn despite a gap of around 300 points per level. Despite a gap of around 400 points across four levels, one of nearly 700 at Level 5, and one of over 900 points at Level 6, Ryuu had a Strength stat that could compete with Hogni's even before casting Agaris Alvesynth. Sure, she had her skill Mind Load and sword Alf's Justitia, but we are talking of a gap of over 3000 points.

How many points does the rank up bonus grants if it can render such a gap meaningless? What even is the point of grinding stats for years if a regular boost (Mind Load) and a weapon appropiate for one's level (Alf's Justitia) grant a much more greater advantage than even maxing out one's stats?

Even if they did matter Bell's status didn't make sense. The system is supposed to work in a way that an adventurer with S999 in Levels 1, 2 and 3 would still be no match for a Level 4. But yet there is supposed to be a way in said system for a Bell with only 200s-300s total "extra points" per stat to have Level 4 prowess while only having D rank stats as Level 3. Making them not matter is honestly as ilogical as it was to make them matter as much as they did.

Actually Dormul is indeed supposed to be a cut above the rest in regards to Level 3s:

Bell and Dormul were both second-tier adventurers. However, Bell had only just recently leveled up, whereas Dormul had reached Level 3 nearly three years ago. In terms of strength and skill, the dwarf was a true veteran. Therefore, he possessed a distinct advantage.

And I didn't assume Bell was his equal in skill because he fought him as an equal. As I said, I do think Bell had prowess above his level in previous volumes, and of course that could make up for a skill gap. No, I said he was his equal because the narration says so.

Eina’s surprise came from the fact that Bell truly looked like a second-tier adventurer.

Even compared to the experienced Dormul, the crispness of his actions was in no way inferior. He wasn’t relying on his Status’s blunt power; instead, his form was conjuring images of a former teacher from the top-class adventurers.

Also, there is how in DM18 Bell refers to him easily defeating Van as the result of the gap between a Level 4 and a Level 5. For as many faults as Oomori has, assessments of Bell's prowess ain't a mistake. Be it narration or characters, they have always been right. Even though when he is above his level Oomori never said so outright, he did state his stats were equal/close to those of someone from a higher level.

Yet in that scene he left it simply as that his power was just that of a Level 5. Not even something like the "mid Level 4" status and "high Level 4 agility" he put back when Bell had become Level 4, but plain and simple Level 5.

@Pluton9, it's reasonable that you consider my comparison as unfair since as you said all those level 6s have abilities that increase their power, but if Bell had shown himself superior to any of them or at least equal, that would be conclusive proof that he is indeed level 6, however, there was only inferiority on Bell's part in said comparisons, which is a clear indication that he is not.

Lack of proof and evidence, that's what I'm talking about, since he rose to level 5, Bell has not shown anything that allows us to conclude that he has a power above his level, so you can't simply assume it as a proven fact.

Perhaps if he faced other level 5s and showed himself overwhelmingly superior, your theory that he is the weakest level 6 but level 6 after all could be true; However, there is some evidence that goes against that as well, namely:

"Drama CD The Jester Who Travels Across Time", which tells of Bell defeating Dina and Vena; that suggests he is level 6, because otherwise how could he defeat 2 level 5s? However, Omori later clarified that Hedin helped him, so it was a 2 vs 2 duel. This circumstance exacerbates the doubts regarding Bell being a level 6, because if he was, why would he need to fight on equal terms against Vena and Dina in order to defeat them?

Personally, I think Omori didn't like that at this point in the story Bell was already as powerful as Orario's own elite. He hasn't even started to actively work with them and he would already equal them in power, so when he was level 6 he would already surpass them by far; it wouldn't be the best plot so Omori moderated himself with Bell and keep him at his real level.

But ultimately it's not something that really matters, in the same way that Omori took away the boost that put Bell above his level when he deemed it inopportune, he will give it back to Bell when he deems it pertinent and Bell will return to being above his nominal level as before.

@Leinad91

It's fine, I know I started speculating based on vague War Game similairity, I am just doing some math to think about what the threat level might be for the antagonist of a hypothetical dungeon expedition arc. As far as I'm concerned, this is the only kiind of fight where Omori doesn't overly play favoritism & Bell's technique has be confirmed being decent enough to fight monsters during his fights against Juggy.

For what I remember the Dis Sister can boost themself with a curse to become on par with Level 6 while covering their weakness with a frighteningly good teamwork, considering Loki Familia statement about Asterius being easy to deal with just good coordination, Bell solowing both of them would probably have been too difficult compared to the hardship Hedin & Hogni have experienced in AR I mean this version of Hedin doesn't know Bell so one sided coordiantion like in the War Game or Laurus hildr aren't available an options.

Honestly, I don't really care if he surpasses them sooner or later, they are not the goal, Ais is & she was portrayed against Asterius as being vastly superior to Tione, Tiona & Bete combine. I know it's just a matter of specialization but Bell doesn't know, also with the War Game over & Freya Familia now kind of added to Hestia Familia there is currently no human threat available so it leave only Dungeon expediation meaning the comparison point will be Ais at her strongest.

Plus if the Ais arc resembles the Ryuu arc, Bell & Ais will end up splitting from the group pretty quickly, so there wouldn't be much point to compare anyway while when this Arc is over Riveria will not allow them to form a relationship if Bell isn't minimum on par with Ais.

Thinking about it, current Bell (base) should be above Aiz (base) as of his post-wargame update. I would said that his stats should be at C or even D at this point.

Even if the resulting value of a stat was the arithmetic sum of all the values ​​it had at all levels, you forget that the simple increase in level generates a great boost by itself, the amount of this is unknown, but it is known it is not at all negligible since the mere fact of having a higher level guarantees that you will have more status than anyone with a lower level.

Thus, adding Bell's stats in his 5 levels may be a higher value than adding Ais's in her 6 levels, but Ais has a level increase more and as long as we do not know how much this boost is equivalent to, it will not be possible to know who has more status between the 2 despite the numbers.

The functioning of the falna has too many unknowns that do not allow true calculations to be made that determine the real power of a character. It is like trying to solve a system of equations where there are more variables than equations, it will have infinite possible solutions.

The 1000+ can define the supposed "massive gap" by even a single level, someone a while back (a member of Danmachi reddit) calculated it to be at around 500+ for a more reasonable level gap.

I've always gone off the 1000+ level bonus estimate for calculating Bell's current stats, like when comparing to Aiz (the missing wargame status updates makes accuracy difficult) in order to gain accuracy of his current prowess. Regardless, and estimate is not a confirmation of what the level boost actually gives.

A prime example of Bell soloing someone above his level (despite the level gap) is Hyakinthos. Even with the training with Aiz and Tiona, it wouldn't explain as to why he was able to win, but then if you look at Hyakinthos' stats you can clearly see that they were roughly matched.

Since Hyakinthos level 3 stats is about all we have to gone on, we can estimate his final stats for his previous levels. To shorten it, he probably didn't max out all his stats in his prior levels, and he could have been around 500+ to 600+ short of 999 (stacked 3 times would give him a 1500+ stat disadvantage) in almost all stat areas especially his magic, with agility and dexterity being his strongest areas because he is a swordsman. Although agility is Bell's forte, he still should have been slower than Hyakinthos, but because he had the quality of life of the other stats like strength for heavy-hitting, endurance for tankiness and his Argonaut + Firebolt combo, he was roughly matched with him.

Adventurers who are above Bell and that haven't maxed their stats give Bell an advantage and closes the stat gap. For example, Bell easily beats Aiz in terms of both strength and endurance (she's pretty weak and isn't tanky) and once Bell achieves high level 5 status, his base speed will greatly exceed her own to the point that only Ariel can match it and of course she would lose to a fresh level 6 Bell.