It was clearly said Ottar would still win Mia, Ryuu and Bell after time. He also used his magic against helpless Udaeus. So this statement didn't make sense from the very beginning. You also literally forgot Hedin existing, the victory without him would be impossible.

@Arberyst

The most powerful attack is useless if it doesn't hit the target. Hogni also mentions that all of his magics are short ranged so it won't help. I think it was demonstrated for a difference in strengh not speed.

A super Boosted Bell haved the speed adventage against Ottar & Allen was still closing the distance with that same Bell before his DA Escape activate. the raction speed is a matter of perception & Allen Level 5 sense simply weren't enought to follow Zald speed who is at level 8.

@Rigel31415

When it's Bell & the narration who said the same thing it's a fact, don't maki like it was only mentionned in MS beside Loki Familia level up doesn't change this rule because they are not longer at the same level if your argument is but they progressed faster that was not the question.

Ottar didn't called his memory of Zeus & Hera an advantage but something the younger generation is lacking & from Ottar judgement Ais was overestimation her own skill when fighting people

7 from the 1st invasion + those who have died in the last battle, I don't call that a small portion, they have lose more than current total member of the Hestia Familia & do

Really you think it wouldn't have been better to not lose those guy in top of leveling up ? From Danmemo we see that Line had she survive would have drastically imporve her healing ability to the point even Airmid considered she is on par with her when it come of dispelling curse, do you seriously not call it wasted potential ? All for just a single step above that wont even last till the end of the years ?

Can you now list the remaining Familia ? Because if Loki & Freya are equal & are suppresing each other that mean the remaining Familia would be free to run arround without issue rather than being confirme at the gate door.

We are talking of Bell, his is so green he bartely grasping that & for Alfia wasn't the goal of her magic & equipement to constrain everything internally, even Vito noted he would have douted Alfia even existed if it wasn't seeing her with his own eyes.

As for the Gulliever they weren't paying attention considering it was just apate Familia old methode of give curse to drugged people again which given their are effectivly cursed wasn't a wrong assumtion additionnaly with just see Bell using a curse item to hide his himself in MS 19.

A public secret & a real secret are differents thing look at Knossos or the Xenos many more poeple have become aware of their existence but that made them public knowledge.

I have not issue because Riveria is a dediated mage while Hedin is a magic swordman who was already like a level 1 even without a Falna, They simple play in different categories it's just like asking who will win in close combat between Lefiya & Aisha meanwhile for Bell & Van they are more the dedicated Warrior type so of course their are to be something that counter Bell circumstance to give Van a victory & i am simply partisant of the skill theory because it suite the Freya Familia narrative.

So you are interpreting this as Finn agreeing with Loki ? From my perspective it was Loki boosting only for Finn to give her an the appropriate wake up call to prevent Loki from be overconfident which is in raccord with Loki personnality & this wake is that even her dreamed situation won't last long. Also in the same scene Finn expressed his worry about FF next action so clearly only Loki was thinking of them lightly.

You mean like when he used against Udeaus ? it used his magic to force Mia action & was even show later Ottar hasn't used all his power, I call that strategy nothing more.

When you said level 6 you talk about the level boosted or the status update Bell , because this fight has being a constant pwer increase so be precise.

Also Ottar didn't combine his magic with Beastification like he do against Zald.

1) They also have other ability the Trio doesn't have.

2) Bell & Ryuu already done that before & Hedin can predict their actions, the only real flaw come from him coordinating with Mia.

3) Yeah Ottar has also year of experience deal with an even more perfect teamwork than the trio while at the same time dealing with other absurdly powerfull guys. From AR his time last far longer than Ais time limite. additionnally Riveria can't reproduce Hedin formation.

4) Level boosting ability only confirmed when having high stats not low stats & isn't even able to allow him to rival Gareth strenght.

Let see firstly, the not killing rule from Freya which as the sole reason this batlle lasted this long & missed so many oppotunity to end them when Ottar in his base base is already enought to instant kill Ais with Ariel in a single blow which is still a better endurance than Riveria, the formation that Riveria can't replicated with the additionnal mention an all out magic attack would be the less optimal strategy she also need a minute to finisher her casting chant while Bell is instant & Ryuu and Hedin doesn't take more than 10 seconds with the fact she has her mind capacity is, the magic who was the perfect counter against Ottar absolute defense & the sole reason he didn't cancel his beatification & rebuild the absolut defense, plus the other innate difference between Ariel & Laurus hildr, Argonaut, the limit off, all of that combine + Luck on their side,

The question of whether the Loki Trio can defeat Ottar is "can Finn and Gareth protect Riveria before she finishes her magic?" and the ultimatum answer is no. To do so, they'd need to have powers higher than UnK Mia, Ryuu and Bell at the same time, and even in a rearguard role, Hedin could fend for himself, unlike Riveria, and we reliably know he's stronger in melee. Teamwork doesn't work against that. Finn with Hell Finegas isn't even capable of teamwork and rational thinking, and his abilities are still incomparably worse than Ottar's. They simply lack numbers, 2 people can't stop Ottar.

@Pluton9

Yes, but combat skills allow you to hit that target. Van wasn't so helpless that he couldn't even hit Bell despite the huge speed gap between them. Also Kaguya almost finished off a higher level Vito thanks to technique. Even Gullivers brothers could react and block Allen's attacks, I see no reason why Hogni couldn't. He also has a special sword that can extend and reach enemies at a distance.

Why would you say that? Ottar managed to block all incoming attacks and as indicated, it was a mistake to get on defense, not because Bell has superior speed, but because Hedin's magic has a penetrating effect and even though he covered himself with his sword, he took damage. Right after that, Ottar using his fighting skills, corners Bell and in a couple blows, Bell's body starts hurting again.

do you think Allen's reaction speed is inferior to his running speed (which should be impossible)?

It's true but they are limite to how long you can maintaint this kind of battle perception which isn't help by the cursed weapon who eat his stamina. From what was show of Freya Familia training in AR, Allen seems to have lasted longer than Hogni.

I wasn't talking about speed advantage in the sense that Bell was so much faster than Ottar that he could non stop attack Ottar him but more the slight speed advantage that gives Bell more opportunities to dodge Ottar's absolute offense. Ottar was still beastified & has S in agility so Allen being even far faster prove he deserve his title of fast of the city.

It's kind of the issue with power beyond your level there always something missing compared to the true thing, as for Allen it's stated he is so fast that those who aren't 1st tier adventuere can't perceive his movement & when his magic is used even Allen himself is unable to keep up with his own speed.

@Pluton9

I didn't say the statement was false, but that it is simply talking about the lower members. If you have one which directly says the executives are more skilled, not just "skilled" or "really skilled" but specifically more skilled than the Loki trio, I won't argue further in that matter.

Ottar didn't say it was his memory of the era, but the experience of living through it, as fighting other people was the norm. Basically FF's method but city-wide.

"Our generation had Zeus and Hera, monsters that acted as if our counterattacks were nothing... During that time, the young people in Orario had no choice but to steep themselves in battle against other people."

I was just expressing my opinion about the death ones. I still stand by it, but it doesn't even have to do with the main topic, so I'll leave it at that.

Only the Loki executives went against any Freya members, and it was specifically the executives. Unless you have evidence that Loki's lower members went after Freya's lower members you are making baseless assumptions. Gareth also notes how them doing so was just them going on their own. Loki and Finn themselves did nothing, they restrained themselves. As the familia's two highest authorities, they could very well have kept in check the lower members.

Bell could already tell Phryne was a first class adventurer. Sure, his ability was green, but he literally saw he could already tell when someone was a first tier. Alfia's magic and equipment reduced the potency of her magic, not her stats, which is what the sensing ability measures. And while the rest did dismiss them as nothing Alfrigg actually was wary of them, yet he didn't realize their level until after seeing them in action.

While being comparable to a Level 1 is impressive, it's not like it acts as a boost for stats. If it was then Hedin, Hogni and Gareth should be Orario's top right after Ottar, yet the one single statement Oomori has made puts Finn as top two.

I know Asterius is a fighter, but his grace is having mediocre technique. Yet his Level 7 tier abilities were all it took for him to be overwhelmingly better than Bete, Tiona and Tione. So a Level 7 Riveria losing to a Level 6 Hedin doesn't actually make sense.

It was Finn lowering Loki's fumes, but by telling her what was to come, not how things were at that moment.

If you are going to insist on not dismissing statements clearly meant to give an insight into the power scale fine, that is the right thing to do, but I ask you to do the same. Ottar didn't use Hildis Vini as mere bait (he did use it as such, but only after he decided to use it), nor was it a show off for us readers (like with Udaeus), it is directly stated he had his hand forced to use it.

If Ottar was using his magic, that meant it was an opponent who couldn’t be brought down by just his monstrous strength and his absolute defense.

So just having made Warlord use his magic was honor enough.

Bell could be proud. He had made Ottar use his magic twice.

And I was talking about when it was Bell, Ryuu and Mia alone, before Hedin joined. I directly mentioned them, just as Ottar's use of Hildis Vini is before Hedin's arrival. I also only considered Bell a Level 6 in the comparison to point out that even the theorical highest of his group is still worse than the Loki trio comparatively. If you want to consider he was a Level 5 fine (I do so too), but that actually reinforces my point. If a Level 7 Ottar can be stalemated by two Level 6s and a Level 5 then that gives more reasons to believe a pseudo Level 8 Ottar is inferior to three Level 7s.

About Ryuu's and Bell's teamwork, they still only have four days of doing it while the Loki trio has years. So there is absolutely no point of comparison.

Ottar using it against them three was also him brute-forcing it, not something he is really used to doing. Trying to do it against that same group but while heavily injured and with another opponent thrown into the mix would obviously make it way difficult. His lack of attempts was simply him not being able to pull it off. Zald also went on to chant his own magic, so he gave a window for Ottar to chant his, something that he didn't get in the War Game.

3) A teamwork that is two levels below his. Just like you said it is not fair to compare the current Loki trio with the Freya executives, it is not fair to compare teamworks of two groups with a wide power gap. The sheer power gap obviously makes the Gullivers more manageable.

I mentioned the time limit because, even if he can go for hours, the problem is that he has one nonetheless, while his enemies wouldn't, meaning one of many ways for them to possibly win woul be to simply outlast him.

4) With how just ranking up alone makes one better than those of lower levels regardless of stats, I really don't see why being at the lower or higher end of one's level matter. Gareth is a strength and endurance specialist, so it isn't really bad that Finn can't match him even with Hell Finegas. Tiona with her skills got so fast at one point Bache couldn't even see her. Do you think she actually reached Level 7 tier speed?

So cute Ottar is nostalgic of Zeus & Hera time because no one in Orario is a real threat to him & has ironically teached to Bell the exact kind of experience he noted was lacking for those of Ais generation.

You are asking for evidence from MS were only the Loki family executives & lately Lefiya were named ? They are as well the representative of the entire familia, especially considering the Loki family is hot-tempered, remember they literally try to purchase Bell for the 18th floor incident while being poisonned raising from their bed like a horde of zombie horde, So clearly it's not just the junior executives who are hotheads especially when even Gareth won't try stopping them.

So you confirme the other guiliver were carreless

Wasn't it writed on the Falna page that "the improvement granted is proportional rather than put everyone at the same level."? Also it's a statment was from Valletta trusting a subjective opinion is your chose.

Asterius is a power type monster in addition of being a Level 7 beside we aren't talking low level 7 vs low Level 6 but high level 6 who has more mind reserve, range, far quicker casting, better combat technic, Previous level higher than her for all execpt magic, most of his DA are higher, a better pre Falna base & so one.

Looking at the future based on present infor is the role of a commander, Didn't said he has made a 30 years plan about Loki Familia.

Yeah but you forgetted that little quote

the only reason why Bell and the others were barely able to compete, and they were able to transform into battle, was thanks to Mia.

An absolute vanguard who can take on Otta, if Mia's vanguard shield falls, they will be defeated immediately.

so Ottart has to find a way to take down Mia while also respecting Freya order to not kill which he do by split the power used in two.

3) Considering the ways to break the absolute defense was to force Ottar to make more decision, the most important aspect is similiar to like boxing it's better to pull more blow that can do something than great punch something Riveria can't do.

The thing is that Ottar has control over his beastication if you try to play the attrition War Ottar will just resert & rebuild the absolute defense once again.

4) You really love that line even when the number of case who betray it has only increase over the year.

Simply answer it actually make clear how much you can pull or take before dying Especially the character has stats close to Riveria than Gareth.

Who know for Tiona she was literally only but for what i remember she only win by paper margin so the sentence you are referring would be greatly appreciated

@Pluton9

You're setting conditions to fit your view of things. How could you prove that this tweet only took active adventurers into account and not retired ones like Anya? You want to argue that they’re too weak due to their retirement to be considered, but in practice, retirement hasn’t weakened the members of the Hostess of Fertility, for the following reasons:

Omori tweeted that Tsubaki, Anya, Chloe, and Lunoire could defeat the Ishtar Familia without Uchide no Kozuchi. Tsubaki would take care of Phryne, and one of the other three would handle Tammuz, leaving the remaining two to deal with about twenty level-3 Berbera. Would you call that being weak?

If you're going to argue that the Berbera are weak, remember that they successfully defended Haruhime from the Einherjars. And speaking of that, if the Einherjars are so superior to everyone else, why couldn’t they take down Lena (level 2) and Samira (level 3) to overpower Haruhime? It’s becoming more doubtful that the Einherjars could win against anyone!

On the other hand, Hedin complained about Mia’s performance, but practically speaking, he didn’t perform any better than she did. She fought solo at the beginning of the battle, and Hedin was the first of the four to fall, despite being the last to join. So his performance was, at most, equal to Mia's, to be generous. Therefore, Mia’s inactivity hasn’t weakened her or the other maids at all.

Given this, if Anya (of the Freya Familia) and Alicia weren’t listed in the ranking, it’s not an oversight but rather because they weren’t meant to be included. Only Bell’s absence is controversial, but that was when his power was immense. As a unique character, it wouldn’t make much sense to rank him with ordinary characters.

As for Aisha, she received UnK at the beginning, but remember it only lasts 20 minutes, and the southern flank was completely overrun with only a few remaining. Also, all gods except four were eliminated by Allen, so before the Bringar arrived, Mikoto, Naaza, and the Berbera were already fighting outnumbered. With or without the level boost, the Einherjars should have been able to defeat her in those circumstances, but they didn’t. Why is that? Perhaps because she’s better than them? If you disagree, how do you explain that under those circumstances they couldn’t defeat her and had to send the Bringar to take her down?

Regarding the Loki Familia, the life of an adventurer is full of dangers. Doesn’t Ottar say that gaining power requires venturing out? They had to defeat Enyo, and that involved risks. If no one had died, Omori would be accused of excessive plot armor. Your idea of prioritizing self-preservation would be the same as letting Enyo roam freely, which obviously wasn’t an option. That’s the life of adventurers: they take risks, some die, but those who survive become stronger.

As for their level 7 being only a stat boost and not a combat skill improvement—in Danmachi, level indicates combat skill, which is why expressions like "the skill of a level X adventurer" are used. This rule is always followed; when have we seen an adventurer with a higher level but lower combat skill than another? Except for Bell, of course. It’s a very natural outcome: leveling up involves facing challenges, overcoming them means progress, and progress translates to higher quality. So, even though there isn’t an official confirmation, it’s logical within the series that Loki’s trio surpasses Freya’s in both stats and combat skills.

Regarding Allen and Bete, given how much you value stats, you should easily understand why Bete needed to beastify himself. Allen could have stats in the S range while Bete’s might be I, H, or at most G. There’s a clear gap that needs to be closed for the fight to be fair—that’s obvious. The interesting part for our discussion is the development of the fight itself, knowing who won or was winning, and whether one had a marked advantage in skill. Ultimately, we’re talking about combat skill, so performance is what matters. Too bad Omori didn’t show us the fights, at least this one, so we wouldn’t have to speculate.

But the fact that neither came out injured raises serious doubts about whether Allen’s skill is vastly superior to Bete’s. The same could be said in reverse, but it’s Allen who has to prove his superiority to give credibility to the idea that any member of Freya’s Familia is superior to anyone from another familia. If the evidence doesn’t support it, that claim starts to look like one of Omori’s typical hyperboles.

As for the conversation between Hedin and Ottar, the trio wasn’t level 7 when volume 18 was published. Yes, chronologically they were, as written in SO14, but SO14 was published after MS18, so it’s a typical case of reconfiguration. So, when MS18 was written, they were still level 6. Therefore, Hedin’s trust in Ottar for victory rather than himself raises a big question about whether he really believes he could defeat any level 6 in Loki’s Familia.

If you're going to say I'm being arbitrary with this reconfiguration idea, it’s no more arbitrary than your claim that not only was the trio already level 7 when it hadn’t been published at that time, but also that Hedin knew this and based his calculations on that uncertain information. Both ideas have a speculative component, but mine has a basis (the publication dates support it), while yours is entirely speculative, if I may say so.

@Rigel31415

The reason I mentioned the efficiency of the growth methods between both familias is that many believe Freya's method of fighting every day makes them better than anyone else, including the Loki Familia. However, it's the members of the Loki Familia who keep leveling up, while Freya's members are stagnant. So, whether conventional or unconventional methods are used, it's the Loki Familia that’s truly improving, raising the question of whether they would really be inferior to anyone from Freya’s Familia at the same level, as improving stats goes hand-in-hand with increasing combat skill.

In volume 17, there’s a confrontation between the two factions, though it’s mentioned very briefly. When Allen, the Bringar, along with Vanir and company were returning to Folkvangr, they were intercepted by Gareth, Bete, and some others who blocked Vanir's path, though it's not specified exactly who they were. Obviously, there are no known results, but they weren’t afraid to face them, and there’s no reason to believe things went poorly since the Loki Familia was intact in volume 18.

Didn't you do the same by considering it's a classification list of all level Level ? Let see defeat 2 of your level + 20 who are lower level than them, I don't call weak but not really an exceptionnal result especially with 3 level 4 nearly as strong as Ryuu.

Have you read this scene ? It was a heroic act not a fight & you really must start to understand the difference between duel & battle royal, The Berbare were literally using themself to take down opponents stronger than them, why do you think both sides ended up annihilated. The mere fact that it become a rank-up feat spoke volumes about the power gap between them & the Einherjar.

Do you really want to make the list of Hedin action during this War Game ? That elf king was basically the MVP that return the all situation by himslelf taking the down Andhrímnir, assissting at elimiating the center wing, doing the same with the Wing facing the Berbera, making Hogni switch side & send him against Allen, covering Any so she can cast her magic, while saving Bell, Ryuu & Mia from Ottar hindis vini, that elf king as done really a lot in this War Game before joining this fight & literally sacrifice himslef & was literally put out of the fight by the cost of using his 3rd meanwhile Mia didn't really fight anyone other than Ottar & lasted only a few minute after him. So yeah Hedin as being ruthlessly efficient.

Remember Haruhime has recast this spell several time & replenshing her mind using potion, what part of Crozzo Magic Sword support as saved Aisha from defeat several time & The bringer weren't even fighting seriously before Anya cast her magic was difficult to understand ?

Okay now you are confusing combat skill with fighting capacity, let see Raul was mentionned as a 2nd rate combattant & in the same list you mention he is ranked weakess even compared to the newbie level 4 like Aisha & Falgare so yeah adventurer with a higher level but lower combat skill than another exist & contrary to Bell they didn't have the excuse of lacking experiences.

Of course value stat & forced to constat their was a big difference in the fight between Beastified Bete against the High level 6 Phryne & against Allen.

Avoid speculating that neither came just because Omori didn’t show us the fight

Beside we have Ais confirmation Allen his a least as skilled with his spear than Ais his we her sword & we see what happened to a non beasstified Bete when they fight in SO 13 side story.

Reconfiguration case don't start with this retroactive continuity sorry excuse & I have a basis too it's called the timeline, It's as not arbitrary as Bell being level 3 in the prologue of volume 7 even when the confirmed come later in chapter 1, you are your level even without confirmation, if the Loki Trio rank up right after SO 12 events by the power of the timeline they are level 7 since then point. Rather than trusting Ottar it's more admitting how impossible it would be to win if they can't deal with Ottar especially when Allen rampaging must also be counted with the worst case scenario of the 2 collaboring.

If you to said Hedin was unaware of their rank up that still pose a problem because it was Finn himself who feared the possibility of Freya Familia improving her ability to fight as a team in this discussion.

@Pluton9

The reason I don’t have to provide evidence regarding the ranking is because I’m simply taking the author’s word literally; you don’t need proof for that. On the other hand, you’re rejecting it, and needless to say, that requires justification. Let’s analyze the sequence of arguments:

1. I used that tweet to demonstrate that it’s false that Freya’s adventurers are stronger than anyone else of the same level from another family, because in the ranking of the strongest level 4s, no one from Freya’s family appeared.

2. You said that’s false, claiming that if Freya’s family had already been introduced, they would top the ranking. This argument has no validity because it’s you saying it, not Omori.

3. Even so, I countered by arguing that if your premise were true, Anya should be number 1 in the ranking, as she had already debuted by that time, yet she didn’t even appear in the ranking.

4. You said it was because the ranking only included active adventurers (another baseless claim) and that the members of the Hostess of Fertility had weakened due to their retirement, citing Hedin’s view of Mia as weak based on her performance when he saved her from Ottar.

5. I countered by saying that Omori stated that the waitresses could defeat the Ishtar Familia, which would mean they’d have to face 10 level 3s each, being level 4s themselves. That would require a great deal of power. In that same vein, I mentioned Hedin, but I wasn’t referring to his overall performance in the war game; rather, I was comparing his performance against Ottar to Mia’s. We absolutely cannot conclude that Mia has weakened or that she is weaker than Hedin. I used this argument to demonstrate that, while it would make sense for retirement to have weakened them, in practice, that’s not the case, and they’re still in top form.

In conclusion, even accepting that members like Van didn’t appear in the ranking because they hadn’t debuted yet, you still have no grounds to justify why Anya isn’t there, which shows that being part of Freya’s family doesn’t make you stronger than anyone else at your same level.

Honestly, I doubt you’ll accept this; perhaps I’m prejudging, but it seems to me that you won’t accept the ranking simply because you don’t like that Freya’s family isn’t on it. I’m open to debating ideas, so if you have counterarguments, I’ll gladly address them, but if they’re like your previous points where you spoke for the author, I’ll leave it at that because it’ll be clear you won’t accept anything other than a level 4 from Freya’s family being the strongest.

Regarding Aisha, I’m talking about the part of the battle where she was fighting the Einherjars before the Gulliver brothers arrived. Let’s assume she fought the whole time as a level 5, but one of your previous arguments was that someone of a lower level can defeat their opponent if they surpass them in combat skill, which you said of Hedin and Riveria. So if Aisha was fighting against 2 or 3 level 4s who surpass her in combat prowess, they should have defeated her according to your logic. Why didn’t that happen?

When the Bringar arrived, it was Naaza’s magic swords that prevented her defeat. But it was 4 against 1; she would obviously lose. Nonetheless, when she faced Alfrigg one-on-one, she was able to partially defeat him, highlighting her great skill in fair combat, legitimizing why her ranking position (2nd, now 1st) is not undeserved.

I admit it would have been better to see her face off against a level 4 from Freya’s family without any level boost; that would have definitively settled the matter. However, if Omori had wanted to ratify that Freya’s members are the best, this would have been the perfect opportunity. Why didn’t he do it?

I understand there’s no conclusive evidence that Aisha is stronger than any level 4 from Freya’s family, but there’s also nothing to suggest any of them could defeat her.

Regarding the Loki trio, there are some indicators suggesting they’re better than the Freya trio, namely:

1. They benefited from the support policies of the Zeus and Hera families, and only Ottar from Freya’s family shared that benefit.

2. In Astrea Record, we’re told Finn is the most powerful after Ottar.

3. As I mentioned, generally speaking, having a higher level usually means having more combat prowess.

You don’t have to refute these points; they’re circumstantial evidence, by no means conclusive. I just want to point out that there are at least some hints in their favor.

As for the Freya trio, correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t see any circumstantial or objective evidence suggesting they’re better than the Loki trio. Well, Riveria does; she herself admitted she could lose to Hedin. But not for Finn or Gareth.

Regarding Allen and Bete, things certainly don’t look favorable for Bete. If he couldn’t land a solid beating on Allen with bestialization just like he did with Phryne, things would likely go poorly for him against Allen. It’s still possible he might have better combat skill if he managed to control the battle, but in overall power, it seems he falls short.

If Hedin had expressed confidence in victory due to his own power, it would be an indication that he considers himself stronger than the other level 6s (in fact, I think that by MS18, whether or not they were level 7, everyone still viewed them as level 6s). However, the advantage was attributed to Ottar, meaning that Omori deliberately avoided clarifying this matter, even indirectly.

In conclusion, I’m not firmly defending the idea that the Loki trio is necessarily better, since Omori continues to sidestep the topic. However, you seem to be firmly defending that the Freya trio is superior, so I’d like to know what evidence you have for that, because I don’t see any.