All posts by Stracher12
Aisha did the same in DM12. Although they never fought since Bell became Level 4 she was able to accurately tell his prowess in each aspect due to seeing him fight in their way to the Water City When Finn got rid of the remnants of evil,
among which there was not a single first-class, Hogni instantly got rid of one of the level 5 spirit warriors.
Even here their achievement is not commensurate.
For example, what if when he called Hogni the most skilled in melee combat he had forgotten that Allen is actually more skilled?
Let's not compare an event that is already a little over two years old, I'm sure that at that time the author practically did not think through the full strength of the Freya family, which is hinted at by the cut fights that appeared only in the LN version.You say that there is no way to say that this is not a clear statement, but also no way to say that this statement is true.
Omori showed this through Valleta's dialogue, but not through the narrator's point of view, which also doesn't lend credibility.
50% to 50% until Finn has done a decent job, let's not judge that as a fact, I can't deny that it's true, but you can't really say it's true either, so we'll just rule it out.
Just like the Gulliver brothers and Ottar.They may have great coordination and be many, but due to how slow they are compared to him Ottar has no problem dealing with them.
It literally says that any attack from them can kill him, but the gulf between them and the gulf between them is too high.
Revis was originally faster than Finn, and also it's been 3 volumes since their last meeting, she's probably gotten even stronger. She could have killed Gareth when she switched to speed but was thwarted, they literally override each other's weaknesses with teamwork.
Physical prowess also matters, and a lot. Asterius has an utter lack of technique, yet even skilled warriors like Bete, Tiona and Tione have no hope against him in a 1vs1, simply because his raw might is too superior to theirs.
Are you saying that the gap between Asterius and Loki's new elite will be the same as the one between Hogni and Finn and Hell finagas??
You're comparing at least a medium-high level 7 monster and low level 6 adventurers, the same Bete doesn't have the weapon to properly hit him, and there's a line where he was able to fight him for a while, at their huge difference.
Moreover, it also says that an adventurer can never achieve the body strength that Asterius has, comparisons between monsters and people of the same level are incorrect, you are literally using ridiculous facts to justify your point of view.
Literally says that the abyss of 1 level is not the limit, because Mikoto barely coped with the adventurer on the level below, because he was an einheria (strong warrior) from the Freya family, even of a low rank.
Naturally, I can show you this line so you can see for yourself.
Also, I read the scenes. I agree with what the japanese readers said in my wall, at no point was it said, shown or implied anything that suggested Hogni was a match for both
You should reconsider your blog, Kisaki literally retracted his words and said there is a line confirming that Hogni fought two.
Angelo also corrected that he was wrong, and another user also confirmed it.
Page number? I don't mean to be rude, but I think it is pretty obvious why I am skeptical to that.
“I always assumed she was long dead by the time they stopped Gale Wind’s rampage that finished off the last of those Evils five years ago. That means, during the Twenty-Seventh-Floor Nightmare…” Raul added, equally as stiff. Loki Familia had naturally been involved in the extermination of the Evils for the past fifteen years. Having joined the familia eight years ago, Raul and Aki were all too familiar with the events that had taken place.
Unfortunately, I was wrong, those were Raul's words.
You can also check this out by reading chapter 2 of volume 7 of the Oratoria.
Everything you say about Finn being second in strength is based only on Valletta's words, not the narrator's.
Still, none of us can say that they are 100% true or false, so this argument may not be used until Finn shows the proper result.
You also cite as an example that Lefia could watch the fight Bete level 5, although the difference in their speeds is simply incommensurable and the difference there is 2 levels, in that case Hogni superior in technique easily handle Finn 7 with the characteristics of I 0 Because even with a 2 level difference, Lefia who is a mage sees the movements of the fastest vanguard family Beta.
On this one I will ask to leave this argument, because of the achievements Finn has only a line, in the fidelity of which you yourself think.
Until Finn really shows his maximum, I won't think he can really surpass even Allen or Hedin.
And again, exposition. If Oomori just wanted to make Finn strong and/or put Valletta in a predicament it was enough to say that he had a Level 6's prowess. Adding an explicit claim that calls him the second strongest is clearly a case of exposition.
And even so, this is not a 100% statement, Finn did not show it in any way. So it makes no sense to take her words as something accurate, because in danmachi most of the lines are wrong.
You can also add here the extremely evasive mood of the author, initially he said that Alfiya and Zard were the strongest characters in the work, but then he remembered Albert, and there are also captains, the victory over which they have only chances.
She knows about the existence of other levels 5, but at the same time she only encountered Finn, and also possibly knew about his magic, therefore she considered him stronger than the others, for example, if she encountered Allen, she would obviously not leave him, and it was also clearly noted, that Hogni has the best close combat, with him she would not have survived either.
In addition, the Freya Family destroyed Apate and Alecto, it is easy to assume that while they were destroying the main families of evil, Valleta encountered the Loki family and the Finn in particular.
I can give a ton of examples, for example, even from the early volumes, where Bell literally called Ais the strongest adventurer, they hardly see other first-class ones, but he knew about the existence of other first-class ones, so...
Lasting against them wouldn't be an achievement if they weren't going serious. If they were just toying with him for example.
Dina pierced him with two daggers, and Vena, with the help of magic and magic swords, did not allow help to come, they were clearly going to kill him
If Gareth wasn't roughly as fast as Finn then Riveria would have been keeping up with either Gareth or Finn. Instead, it is stated that she kept up with both, meaning they were each roughly as fast as the other.
This actually contradicts the system given by the author. I doubt that it is specifically about their physical capabilities, rather it is only their fighting technique that they trained where everyone adjusted to their partner, which is logical, saying that they have the best team work in the LF
In fact, while reading the battle from volume 18, I just came across a scene where Mikoto barely killed a lvl 1 adventurer from Freya's family.
By the way, the Finn had no doubt that Ryu level 4 was capable of defeating Valleta.
1) Combine both, and Ais boasting a prowess comparable to that of a Level 7 isn't unreal.
At the same time, she is far from Ottar, and also it was not a tempes avenger, a separate wind and an avenger, so her speed was not level 7.
2) Ottar claimed the Loki top executives were better than Ais in combat against people. But Ottar has an actually particular relation with them, acknowledging them as his rivals. So should we completely discard Ottar's comment?
You are literally comparing different things, Ottar clearly appreciates the composition of the Loki family, because he encountered and observed them, but there is simply no evidence that Valleta fought with someone from the Freya family and you thought of them yourself.
3) Besides Bell no one has ever been shown surpassing someone of a higher level through stats alone. If you can provide an example then do so.
Literally Bethe and Finn.
Lefiya could only defeat the minotaur at level 3, while normal lvl 2 fighters could also do it.
May I ask you to drop a line where exactly Gareth could keep up with Finn's movements?
4) A skilled melee fighter with an almost 100% completition record, and who herself was explicity said to have experience dealing with magic swordsmen.
It's still not a valid comparison because Ryu is the one who uses parallel singing better than riveria and Finn didn't use his magic even on the demi-spirit from volume 12 of the oratorio after such moments can show that he can't use parallel singing at all or use it extremely poorly.
5) Actually got the volume. Can upload photos of the scene as proof.
As for Ar 3, I put it wrong, because few people read it, I judged by the spoiler, however ... In Ar 1 there is an interesting moment when the dis sisters hold hands (an illustration was also dedicated to this), after which, before the battles, they release a huge magical power.
Anyway, a 2v1 fight where the opponents couldn't overwhelm Hogni without his gaffe is an achievement beyond defeating Dina with level 6 strength and speed.
Your words that everything is needed in order to emphasize Finn as the second strongest is just your assumption.
In Volume 10, Asterius said that Ottar could only be "PROBABLY" stronger than Ais using Wind + Avenger alone, which is a blatant lie and shouldn't be said why.
Characters tend to make mistakes, besides, as is known from the "Knights of Fianna" Valleta, this is Finn's fateful opponent, and the fact that she singles him out does not seem to be something surprising. (I'm not saying she remembers anything or anything like that)
2) Status is made up of past level stats, naturally it was hard for Bell to overcome a higher level opponent when he doesn't have any status points for the past level. Hermes literally stated that Bell against Hyacinth level 3 could only be helped by high stats for past levels, Hogni has much better stats than Finn (except agility) So even becoming level 7, he will obviously lose in strength, in other stats like speed is superior not so much to be covered by Hogni's skill, which is the best among all first class.
Again, you ignore Finn's paltry achievement even under hell finagas.
3) Since you haven't read 3 Astrea, and are judging by spoilers, I will say that it was written there that the Diz sisters didn't want to let them fight whoever they wanted, and the final result was that Dina fought Hogni and Vena fought Hedin, who actually pierced her with a cursed sword.
4) Of course, it is very logical to compare Lunoar, an unarmed fist fighter against Ryu, who has better parallel singing than Riveria.
And also Hogni, the best melee fighter among first-class adventurers, and Finn, who never showed parallel singing at full strength.
5) He literally had no occasions where he could use 3 magic, as the sisters dee being two could prevent him from even using personality magic. In the second battle they fought a clear strategy from Hedin, it is possible that Hogni's trump card as 3 magic is a debilitating booster and using it will involve risk, so it is easier to trust the strategy, because from their first fight, Hogni calmly confronted them both. Saying that since he didn't use it, it's useless is silly. Omori always saves the characters' abilities as a trump card.
Also, it didn't make sense for Hogni to use a trump card because the battle was in full swing, and the first one to lose patience was Allen, who knows because he could have used it further, because the fight was interrupted.
I see that you completely ignore what I said before about Finn's ridiculous accomplishments, and repeat your own words, backed up by illogical facts.
I understand that you are simply a Finn fan, so I won't argue with you.
I can tell you really overestimate Finn.
Valleta's words that he is number 2 after Ottar are just inventions of the same Valleta, who is not the fact that he fought Allen or Hedin.
Volume 18 put everything in its place, and it was mentioned that Hogni has the best close combat among all the first-class, and then this is confirmed by the fact that his pure skill rivals Ottar.
Finn's stats as a level 7 is not such a huge gap, because Hogni already had experience against fighting those with characteristics above his level (The name in the hands of Hedin's sword, which did not look like a standard sword at all, he did not let himself be wounded by Deena, who had the strength and speed of level 6, when it was clearly stated that in battle with the first-class any mistake = death).
Plus, given Hogni stats, he'd clearly have an edge in strength.
Moreover, his skills are unknown, she has 3 magic, as well as skills whose meaning can only be guessed at.
About whether Finn can use throwing magic, I'll say it's unlikely. It's also been stated that Hogni can kill adventurers who can use parallel chant, even if they're level 6, and Finn using Hell, Finnegas has a negative rage effect that won't allow him to concentrate well, especially against an opponent like Hogni.
I really don't understand why you give him such a huge rating?
Dark Times = Sat in the office and came out only to defeat the remnants of evil, among which there were no first-class ones (It is clearly stated that the main families of evil were crushed by the Freya family)
Even using Hell, Finegas missed Valleta.
His "Battles" With Zeus and Hera's family literally shows nothing, Zard mentioned that Bell's father's defeats by Hero prum and boar are, literally, something humiliating. And if Ottar simply had a crazy desire to catch up with the elite warriors of Zeus and Hera, then the Finn simply strove for the standard path of development.
As a backup against the Behemoth. Riveria, Gareth, Finn served as assistants, like Raul was in the Loki family.
Battle with the revis = Due to his mistake, he lost his spear and ended up in a bad position, although he managed to get out, losing his spear on the way and breaking his finger on the revis.
An encounter with an argana that was on the verge of death after being hit by Tione with two skills per strength. If defeating her with Hell Finegas, it's a total bullshit achievement.
Revis' next battle = When Finn was on the verge of death, he wondered if he should use hell finegas, fearing for his family members.
As a result, without having time to decide, he almost died, but family members survived anyway ...
Fight Finn, Gareth, Riveria vs Revis = it's not even a fight, but a beating of a stupid monster, but even so they missed her and she ran away.
If you say that Ottar cited Finn as an example for Ais, then I will immediately say that Ottar did not make sense to talk about Allen or Hogni, who has the best technique among all, because it is logical that she almost does not know them, unlike Finn.
I don’t know what the maximum Finn can show in battle, but according to what has already been shown, he can’t be given 2nd place in the top of the strongest.
And there is no need to write about the situation "What if" Because the narrative clearly showed us the whole scenario of his actions and achievements.
Are you saying that statistics have a practical minimum value?
Why then is Gareth much stronger than Finn, and even when he used hell Finigas, he only managed to damage the tentacles of the demi spirit, while Gareth completely broke them.
@Invel eq I just advise you to read more carefully. Then you will understand that the superiority in technique and tactics referred to Ryu over Bell, and not over Hogni
About the victory of the Astrea family over Alfia.
The events of the game vaguely describe their entire confrontation, and it is almost certain that the author reprinted Astrea's notes as a light novel, which explains many of the inconsistencies.
At least we've already been told that Alfia's dress holds back magic, and it almost certainly turns out that she didn't plan on killing them, but her goal was to make them transcend themselves.
@Leinad91 The role of Ais in volume 18 should not be important. Enough that she is paired with another loki leader or Ryu level 5 + boost haruhime will defeat Hogni in a tough fight.
It seems to me that Lil rafaga forcing Ottar to use all her brute force is just a plot flaw due to the fact that what happens in the early volumes.
Let me remind you that in the same volume, Bethe was able to surpass his speed, and Tionne of level 5 clearly broke through the defense (it's very funny, because Ottarl's feature is in his unshakable defense, which has been improved since the battles against the families of Zeus and Hera)
As long as I remember. At that time, the author did not come up with Hogni and Hedin, so there were a lot of shortcomings and Ottar's strength clearly grew with the future plot.
In summary, I believe that Ottar, in the fresh sword oratorio volumes and the new foundation volumes, is much stronger than the author imagined him in the initial volumes of the oratorio.
First of all, I'm a Japanist and I know that it says that EIS MAY lose to both the Amazons and Beta, who will absorb her wind. And the information about Zard and Alfia should not be linked, their opponents were the strongest level 8 and 9, it said that they have Chance. Also, you're initially missing the whole post where the author directly wrote that aiz isn't that good in combat with adventurers
How annoying is the constant overestimation of ais, whether she will be in the war or not makes little sense, for any 6lv of the elite freya will easily beat her, the author himself made a tweet that she can even lose to Tiona, who is quite weak, so it makes little sense to include her in battles against the elite freya
tomorrow there will be an invention in which there will be a retelling of the chronicles of Freya, and at the end there will be a few events from volumes 16 to 18, which means we are waiting for spoilers
what's the point of this vote? the author was tweeting that aiz the weakest level 6 against humans, and that she would lose to new level 6s like beta and amazon, bell would have no problem beating her with ariel at level 5
aise is the weakest level 6, she can't beat any of the elite, the only way she can be useful is to help
Bell pic level 5 vs hedin = bell
Ottar vs elite loki = Ottar wins easily.
Hogni vs ryu and aiz, aiz is the weakest level 6 against humans, but with ryu getting level 5 and some trump card, they have a chance, though still small so
bete under haruhime vs allen = allen
gullivers vs tione and tione = amazons
something like this