All posts by IkariSon

yes he was

since I can't copy the source, I wrote it by hand, so there may be errors. later I'll try to point out the page on which it was. I don't have access to a computer right now.

edit: ok, i'm an idiot. these lines do not exist. one of my friends played a prank on me. I'm sorry.

Another result of people immediately accusing me of lying instead of asking me normally why I think that.

AR3 Ottar' thoughts: 相手は私よりはるかに強く、私には一族の闇の妖精のような戦闘戦術も才能もなかったので、私は破滅しました。

the narrative clearly says that he is 1 or 2 in melee in the Freya family, but if Ottar himself admits that he is worse, then Hogni is clearly 1 after all. this automatically makes him the best in the city in close combat. As for Finn, we've seen him fight Levis and 2 times he performed worse than a low level 6 ais. any speed-based fighter fight against Gareth will be like Bell's fight with Dormul or Moss.

>Ottar was also in danger but he still do it anyway and no one stopped him

I'd agree if it was an isolated incident, but that's exactly the point, it's not. Ottar fully trained on the 37 floor as soon as he got level 4, not just one time surviving and coming back. if level 4 Ottar can go to the 37 floor whenever he wants without dying once, then there was no high danger. Omori keeps saying that the dungeon is only dangerous because of irregularities, but there's nothing difficult about regular monsters. Ottar just proved that. Floor 37 isn't very dangerous for a skilled level 4 from Freya's family. you can say all you want that ais was in danger, but this way you're just confirming that low level 4 Ottar was stronger than her, which even I don't believe. After all, Freya forbade him from trying to defeat Balor when he came back half dead once. if Freya let him train on the 37 floor, then he never once came back in such a state that she had thoughts of forbidding him. so the 37 floor wasn't even a particularly serious test for him. after all, it was just Amazon's opinion. in V18 they thought Bell would lose to a few level 4 Freya guards and only buffs would let him win.

>Level up heighten sense and Berling is a level 5.

I would agree if we were talking about Berling at full strength, but that wasn't the case. the strength of the Gullivers is in their teamwork, and when they are separated, they become weaker not only physically but also psychologically because they are not used to 1 on 1 combat. one of the Gullivers lost to a pseudo-5 level Lunoire in a few seconds. among them, only Alfrigg was capable of fighting 1 on 1 with Aisha, the others were too anxious.

>Omori tweet that Juggernaut is only quite stronger.

he could have chosen whatever wording he wanted. he doesn't have to add the word "huge" or anything like that every time. if he says one is stronger than the other, it means one can be stronger than the other without any restrictions. random example: "Yeah. They're stronger than Goliath for sure. The Guild rates them at Level Six because they live in the water, but their raw ability is closer to a Five. If we encountered one with this many upper-class adventurers in our group, we'd be able to take it down". there's a whole level difference between Goliath and Amphisbena and 2 whole levels in the water, but she's saying that Amphisbena is just stronger than Goliath, not much stronger. that is, even the level difference isn't a limitation for that wording. if Omori says one is stronger than the other, it could even be a comparison between level 3 and 7.

>It also only said that the Juggernaut's power is according to the zone it was born, some were so strong it can wipe out Astraea Familia, or crush a whole party of first tier adventurers. Not the one that crushes Astraea Familia can crush a whole party of first-tier adventurers.

The description of him being able to destroy a group of first class goes separately from the fact that his strength is floor dependent. if it was about him being able to get strong for that, we'd be told that, but it's in the context of THAT Juggernaut saying he can destroy a group of first class, so you're just making stuff up.

upd. I even double-checked Alize's status. her battle with Juggernaut fit every single condition for her skill, which was strong enough to make her level 5, and Juggernaut was still so stronger that it made her give up the fight and let herself get impaled, giving Ryuu a chance to attack. She even used Agris, strengthening her even more. the monster was obviously also losing to her in experience, tactics, and technique. a level 5 monster can't achieve such a result, and its armor had no effect on Agris.

>SO2, Tiona, and Tione said it's dangerous for Ais to stay alone on that floor

The usual exaggeration of dungeon' danger. it's pretty obvious that ais wasn't in danger. unless of course you want to say that low level 4 Ottar was stronger than high level 5 ais. although I was wrong about Colosseum, Ottar was still training alone on the 37th floor.

>If you just judge by the result then Amphisbaena being level 6 in water must be a lie because it can not kill a single level 3

Amphisbaena was just plot armor. obviously.

>Or Berling must be a level 4 for failing to defeat Naaza and Mikoto

it wasn't Berling against Naza and Mikoto. it was Berling striking at Naza, and was ambushed by Mikoto. the level makes no sense unless you have eyes in the back of your head.

>Not much. It's just 3 floors.

how does this have logic? silverback is on floor 12, Minotaur is on floor 15. there is a difference of 3 floors between them. does that mean there is a small difference in strength between them? don't be ridiculous. a dungeon doesn't always increase the strength of monsters incrementally, it can just add one level to them whenever it wants. The juggernaut that killed Astrea's family was claimed to be someone who could defeat even a group of first-class adventurers. no level 5 monster in the world could defeat a group of first-class adventurers. he was an obvious level 6.

what

>Ryuu said even first tier adventurers do not travel floor 37 alone, not because they absolutely couldn't but because it's risky

she wasn't the first-class adventurer to talk about facts. it was only her opinion, not based on anything, that is, empty words. we know that a Level 4 Ottar trained there alone, and not just on the floor, but in the colosseum, the most dangerous part. the only thing it says is that level 4 Ryuu isn't anywhere near competent as level 4 Ottar. in fact, it was obvious from the beginning.

>The first time Bell and Ryuu face it, they are just as helpless as they would be against a level 6.

Bell, thanks to the scarf, but he could stand his ground. Ryuu in an emotionally bad state could also resist him. in the end, two Level 4s defeated him. everything points to Juggernaut being an obvious level 5. a level 2 difference is a difference where the adventurer cannot even see the opponent's attacks. especially Juggernaut which is based on speed.

>She has enough time to respond and all the conditions met for her skill to make her a first adventurer, yet was still quickly defeated.

The juggernaut from the 30th floor was much stronger than the one from the 27th floor.

>From this order, it seems like Floor Boss is generally 3 levels higher than the first digit of the floor number though.

in fact, it was said that the floor boss is always 2 levels higher than the monsters of the same floor. the first 3 floor bosses are 10 floors difference, but there is a 12 floor difference between Udeus and Balor. probably the next boss will be on the 61 floor. if he is 3 levels higher than the first digit then he will be level 9, but it's pretty obvious that if Udeus is level 6 then Balor is level 7 and the next boss is level 8.

Bell won't surpass Ottar until he reaches level 7. in terms of combat skills, he will still be worse, and Ottar will become level 8.

>The question here is whether Loki's trio was already considered level 7

The funny thing is that you all think they were level 6 when literally nothing points to that and the timeline says they should be level 7 by now. it's you who has to prove they weren't level 7, not me. you so confidently accuse Оmori of lying and such, but you simply have nothing to indicate they weren't level 7.

>Ottar vs Finn, Gareth and Riveria (all level 7).

Ottar was dominant in the battle against Hedin, Mia, Ryuu and Bell, all level 7 (Bell is 6, but in terms of stats is also 7), even if Loki's trio had better teamwork, their combat power is still too lower. Gareth is worse than Mia as a tank, based on how they both performed against physically strong level 7 opponents (Ottar and Gugalanna). Riveria before using her magic is seriously worse than anyone in the comparison. Finn is Finn. so, Mia>Gareth; Hedin, Ryuu, Bell>Finn, Riveria (before magic). i.e. Loki's trio's only chance is Riveria's magic, but even that's no guarantee since he can just use Beastification and Hildis Vini to deal with her magic.

>Allen vs. Bete

Allen no explain

>Hedin vs. Tione

Hedin no explain

>Hogni vs. Tiona

Hogni no explain

>Gulliver brothers vs. Ais and Anakitty

if ais can separate them with her wind, they might have a chance.

>We see that there is a balance in the level, but not in the statuses, the Freya family has a clear advantage in this regard

Not just status. Freya familia is considered different from other families in how much they hone their techniques and tactics, as stated in V18. specifically Hogni is the best melee fighter in Orario, and Ottar is the second best melee fighter in Orario. in terms of theory Finn should be somewhere near them, but in the battle with Levis he performed worse than even ais, a level 6 rookie, and even lost his spear.

>However, if we include Mia the balance immediately tilts in favor of Freya, she is a decisive advantage

The balance between FF and LF has never been even without taking Mia into account, but here I agree with you that with Mia it becomes too obvious. but speaking only about the elite, you forgot one important detail: the healer squad. even if the elite are defeated or in bad shape, Heith and the others can always heal one of them. for example, even Riveria with her magic won't be enough to kill Ottar if Heith is looking after him.

>Bell vs Tiona, despite having more statistics than her (presumably) she completely surpassed him.

Bell pretty clearly outperforms Tiona in stats, even taking level into account. the only reason Tiona is probably stronger is experience and stuff. how does that say anything about the importance of level?

>The second and most illuminating: the waitresses vs the Bringar, when they faced them as level 4, Omori exaggerated the scene saying that they only lasted for 50 seconds, then they faced them as pseudo level 5 and with some help they beat them.

you're missing too many details. The Gullivers easily defeated the level 4 waitresses, but they were still much stronger than the level 5 waitresses and Aisha. the only reason mentioned why they could fight is the fact that they didn't engage in full melee combat, but hit and immediately retreat, which basically denotes a simple retreat. the only reason they won is to separate the Gullivers, who can't do anything 1 on 1 except Alfrigg.

>In conclusion, what the waitresses needed was the same level as them, no more statistics, no more combat skills, the level was enough for them, so the level weighs much more than everything else in the system.

they defeated the Gullivers by getting them into a state where they literally don't know how to fight. the level only allowed them to last a little while before the plan started to work. Yes, the level was undoubtedly still important, but again it's not something great.

>As it is, Hedin couldn't defeat her as a level 7

Mages are famous for losing to someone a level lower in melee combat. Lefiya was only able to defeat the Minotaur after reaching level 3, meaning that only at level 3 did she become as strong as a level 2 warrior.

>until there is conclusive evidence in this regard, which to date there is none.

Even ignoring what he did in AR, V18 put things into perspective. Ryuu had level 6, Mind Load, Strengthening Sword, Agaris, Fairy Serenade, and Hogni started dominating her the moment he got serious. it was literally said that as soon as he started advancing, he immediately started wounding her and she couldn't do anything about it. When you start getting wounds and being helpless from the first seconds of the encounter, you can't fight like that for long. and Ryuu had tons of buffs and Hogni was seriously wound and his stamina was depleted. so he can beat a level 6 in a short time, and not a weak one. that's a fact.

Lefiya never said that Ais was stronger than Hedin in close combat. she never thought of Hedin at all. her only thoughts were who would win between Ais and Riveria level 7, and she had known both of them for several years, so she had to imagine their strengths. after that, Riveria says that she will definitely lose to Hedin in melee. it turns out that Hedin in close combat is stronger than both ais and Riveria level 7.

if you yourself agree with the fact that mages in close combat can lose to someone one level lower, then why are Hedin and Riveria not the same case? Lefiya reasons that she doesn't know who will win between Ais and Level 7 Riveria, knowing both of them. in order for Hedin to defeat the level 7 Riveria, he only needs to be stronger than ais.

you stole my answer

in any case, Finn admitted that Freya Familia could have cleared Knossos on its own, knowing the power of the half-spirits and Levis, and seeing how many failures LF had, the difference is simply obvious. the fact that FF is stronger than LF has already been confirmed a bunch of times, and I repeat, you are denying the obvious. throughout volumes 16, 17, and 18, FF is clearly named as the strongest, and in V18, LF's elite roll on the floor in shock at any FF action.

well, since Leinad said everything instead of me, it's just an addition.

obviously Haruhime doesn't count as she's a special case. and I didn't make it up, it's a quote from LN18. Freya's family has been named the strongest family many times, and its members constantly prove it, you're just denying the obvious.

ok and

why should this be a question? near Finn and Hedin's dialogue, it is explicitly mentioned that the Loki familia + alliance only have a 50/50 chance of defeating one Freya familia. accordingly, Loki familia alone has well below 50%.

@Rigel31415 can you check your wall pls

on the wiki page with these SS there is also about Ottar. what was there?

>Pretending it doesn't count if she worked together with Finn.

I would have understood you if there had at least really been a direct 1 on 2 fight, but no. literally all Riveria did was trip Levis once after Finn hit her. more than one second of interaction with Levis is all I asked for, but you didn't provide me with that because it's trivial doesn't exist in SO.

>Riveria is a dedicated backline mage.

This is the reason why she loses to Hedin in close combat, even with a level advantage. I literally don't understand why you want Riveria to look good when it's pretty obvious that she can do almost nothing in close combat.

>Revis was not able to slaughter her with a casual backhand, despite being a massively strong dedicated swordswoman.

Riveria was able to handle one single attack from Levis, whose status was only a low level 6, and all she had was bare fists, and that was right after Finn hit her, meaning Levis hadn't even had time to fully concentrate on Riveria yet.

>That alone speaks volumes as to Riveria's actual competency at self-defense.

Riveria's agility is 600 as high level 6, which is even slightly above average, so she managed to dodge ONE low level 6 Levis attack. there is literally nothing special about that. even battles with level differences almost never end with one hit. when Riveria was almost certainly faster than Levis, she only managed to handle one attack, and again it was only because Finn gave her a chance. competent at self-defense? Gullivers almost killed her once, and even when she leveled up, Hedin can beat her in close combat. unless of course you mean to say that Hedin is so good at close combat that he can overcome the level difference. obviously this is for one simple reason: Riveria is a pure mage who knows only a little about self-defense, and she needs her opponent to be 2+ levels lower to win confidently.

> And if she can merely hold her own against Revis

"Finn’s upward swing connected with the woman’s chest, the blade cutting flesh.

The woman staggered backward—that was the window Riveria needed.

“Why, you…!”

The woman twisted her body to meet the new threat.

Her muscles burned as she whipped her fist forward like a wrecking ball.

Riveria only had one eye open as she adeptly avoided it, and then—Tap.

The gauntlet flashed right by her as her feet came to a complete stop. She had foreseen this reaction and had made sure the enemy’s counterattack would fall harmlessly short.

But that was only the first part of her plan. The red-haired woman watched in horror as the elf swept the staff at her feet.

That light contact was enough to completely knock her off balance."

She can play melee all she wants as long as Finn gives her windows, but her actual fighting prowess doesn't changes.

>she is capable of beating Level 4 or 5 Bell without too much trouble in hand to hand.

high Level 4? yes. low level 5? it can't be without trouble. the current Bell is already strong enough to give her a fight.

>It's like you people have gotten so caught up in hypothetical crap and stat sheets you forgot the actual books where Riveria goes toe to toe with Revis and holds her own.

Riveria never fought Levis 1 on 1 for more than one second in the entire SO.

>You're literally making this about Freya Familia because everything is about them to you.

as a major FF hater, you obviously look at everything you don't like and miss the main point. yes, the thread was about Bell vs Riveria, and I said, quote: "in fact, any level 6, near Hedin in close combat, has the same result." that is, Bell will be able to beat Reveria when he becomes the same or close to Hedin in terms of close combat. obviously, high level 4 or low level 5 Bell is not capable of defeating Riveria right now. at high level 5, he probably can. I used the Hedin example because it is literally the only direct evidence we have at this point.

>Boy you are REALLY underestimating Riveria.

the main Lokifan said. Level 7 Riveria literally admitted that she will lose to Hedin at long range and close combat. since the SS also says that Lefiya, who has known them for years, is not sure who will win between Riveria and Ais, and Riveria herself says that she will definitely lose to Hedin, this means that in close combat Hedin>Riveria/Ais with wind. in fact, any level 6, near Hedin in close combat, has the same result. level means a lot, but not when we talk about mages, but of course for LF fans even Riveria will be a melee killing machine, not to mention Braver and Sword Princess.