All posts by AlfiaTheNoise
I'm not surprised that when it comes to fighting in a location that resembles a demi-spirit base or something, Ais and the girls are only the three of them, and the full squad of elites is not used. A split-force tactic in a Familia that focuses on teamwork and cohesion? Well, it's Finn Fraudmne.
Omori's tweet just included random level 4s, or probably just the most popular ones (except unexpectedly for all Falgar). To say that this represents the actual power distribution between all level 4s in Orario is to believe that Raul would be stronger than any level 4 from FF, Bell, Chloe, and Lunoire, which is not the conclusion of a mentally healthy person. I don't even see how that can be an argument.
The question of whether the Loki Trio can defeat Ottar is "can Finn and Gareth protect Riveria before she finishes her magic?" and the ultimatum answer is no. To do so, they'd need to have powers higher than UnK Mia, Ryuu and Bell at the same time, and even in a rearguard role, Hedin could fend for himself, unlike Riveria, and we reliably know he's stronger in melee. Teamwork doesn't work against that. Finn with Hell Finegas isn't even capable of teamwork and rational thinking, and his abilities are still incomparably worse than Ottar's. They simply lack numbers, 2 people can't stop Ottar.
It was clearly said Ottar would still win Mia, Ryuu and Bell after time. He also used his magic against helpless Udaeus. So this statement didn't make sense from the very beginning. You also literally forgot Hedin existing, the victory without him would be impossible.
I already said why I think so. Dexterity is never shown as a decisive factor or even a helping factor, that's all. The rest is headcanon.
The battle with Hyacinth proves that only a linear system fits the calculations, with a level bonus of 1000. This may not make sense, but it's exactly what Omori wants us to think. Hyacinth's Strength is 667 (2001), Agility is 519 (1557). Bell's Strength is 2179, Agility is 2639. As a result, we see that: Hyacinth is clearly superior to Bell in Strength, but slightly inferior in Agility; lvl up is 1000; and the system works on the principle of "the sum of all stats for levels + all lvl ups - the same values in the opponent", where 100 is a slight advantage, 500 - noticeable, 1000 - huge (difference in levels). I'll say it again, it may not make sense, but if it works, I don't care, I'm not surprised Omori came up with something like this. in order not to underestimate or overestimate Tsubaki, I think it's fair to give her an average stat value of around 750. that way it comes out that Bell has Strength 4907 and Agility 5869. Tsubaki's all 3750 (though her Strength should be 4000+). looks like huge difference but somehow Van fought that and won, though he might have some Skills so we can't really judge.
I didn't say Hogni's fighting skills give him higher level strength, but the difference between him and Tsubaki is obvious, he's like 2 heads above her in terms of everything about combat. In a similar way, Dix dominated Bell, even when it's stated that the latter was competing with him in status. Also, Hogni should have noticeably higher stats as well as 3 skills, and she still managed to wound him. I don't think this is a bad result for either of them. You can say that Allen would beat Hogni with his magic, but of the two of them, Hogni is the clear favorite in the base state (well, I mean with his personality change magic)
It makes no sense that Bell would stop using his magic, which, in his own words, was the only prerequisite for victory. Rather, Van had simply found a way to counter it. specialty of Bell's magic is speed and surprise, but for someone seeing it for the second time, it becomes not so hard to avoid. Although I agree that Bell is still clearly more powerful overall, because if their first fight had been to the death, Van would have died from his magic, but instead he was healed and allowed to adapt to it.
"It doesn't negate anything but for reminder Bell is also doing this kind of feat & it's again Mid level fighter strange & unstable experiment who are actually weaker than the true counter part." I've lost the narrative.
Different ones had different abilities, but each of them still possessed level 5 status. that was enough to guarantee a victory over a normal level 4 like Raul.
I think Enduranse should only increase the defense of the body, and survivability depends on level and willpower. Stamina is also level dependent, as Ais stated that this improved better than any of her stats, confirming that it has nothing to do with stats. If the level buff is equally true for Enduranse (a) and Agility (b), then having 2a and 2b would make them relatively equal, and stamina grew more.
The only enemies Finn has faced since the banishment of Zeus and Hera are monsters no higher than level 5. Only Cadmus, Udeus, and Balor stand out, but Finn fought them as part of a group, not alone. He also fights far less often than any of the Loki elite, being a commander and watching the newbies grow.
As for the Prums, they are literally stated as the weakest race, so I don't know what you're trying to say by pointing out their strengths doesn't help them at all. Gullivers strength lies in teamwork, never showing any miracles of dexterity, just precise coordination of movements. And the Gullivers are almost universally recognized as the weakest among the FF elite, at least at the moment. We see someone crushing someone with strength and speed every day, magic and sometimes defense are often mentioned, but we absolutely never once see someone crushing someone with dexterity or fighting someone stronger due to dexterity. you don't have a single skill that only increases dexterity, even though there are such skills for all other stats. it's really a useless stat, and Omori agrees with me, since he never claimed it was useful. Everything else is headcanon without a single endorsement. I agree that it may denote accuracy, but it's too insignificant to pay attention to. if the author isn't paying attention, why should I?
I think we've misunderstood this piece:
"My body has not forgotten the things my idol taught me!
I’m not Freya Familia’s Bell Cranell at all!
No matter how the world might reject me, even if all the deities and people deny me, the techniques and skills engraved in my body reassure me.
My encounters with the Sword Princess and all the training on the city wall were reality. The lessons she taught me are still firmly rooted inside me.
And it’s not just her teachings, either.
Van mentioned it, too—my habit of letting my right arm float upward. It was none other than Lyu who endured hell with me in the Deep Levels who first pointed it out and suggested I try to correct it!
Why hadn’t I noticed it sooner?
Why had I mistaken what they taught me for my own strength?
How egotistical could I be?
I’m weak and can’t do anything by myself! I only managed to get where I am with the help of so many people!"
Bell states that all of his teachings were engraved in his body and he always remembered them. the only mistake was he thought everything he learned was his own power. so he didn't forget anything.
The number looks significant because you've added all the numbers together, but the actual effect of these updates is much lower. Endurance won't help against slashing weapons, and the usefulness of Dexterity has never even been proven, so that leaves only Strength, Agility and partially Magic.
LN saya "sometimes winning, sometimes losing" so I don't know what it is if it's not 50/50. Even if Bell was a more frequent winner, it's really just a headcanon since it's not stated or implied. I agree that Bell with final level 4 status would have won 9 or 10 times out of 10, however that doesn't negate Van's feat.
What does Hogni have to do with this? The original Tsubaki is only level 5, and even if she's close to leveling up, her combat skills are at best the same as the new level 6. Hogni is stated to be competing with Ottar for 1st or 2nd place in terms of melee combat. Ottar's combat skills are close to the new level 8. This makes the difference in combat skills 2 levels. Using a strong level 6 with such mastery to compare to a pseudo level 6 is a bad example.
Kaguya would be stronger, but that doesn't negate Tsubaki's merit in any way. Kaguya is known for being able to defeat a level 4 being a level 3 with the support of a level 2 prum. Her techniques directly take her to the next level of threat. Being weaker than her is no disgrace.
in fact, the reason for that statement was something else entirely, not personal power: "The spirit warriors that had been so effective against Freya Familia were Apate Familia’s secret weapon. However, they needed adjusting after every battle by a team of highly skilled mages and hexers. Otherwise, the adventurer’s physical body and the spirit it was infused with would begin to reject each other, leading to mental disturbances, physical breakdown of the flesh, and eventually, complete loss of control. At that point, even Basram’s ringed staff would no longer be able to exert influence over them. Basram’s words, that there was no substitute for a purebred first-class adventurer, rang true. No amount of trickery could reproduce their power without running into issues." While I agree that they are generally inferior to full-fledged level 5 adventurers, they should still have no problem beating a normal level 4 based on what we know about the level difference. They are stated to retain some of their techniques, and have animal instincts, regeneration, and instant magic, and on top of that a level 5 status. much more than what the current Raul would offer. yet Tsubaki won, even without the OP skills and magic. she is far, far above average just with her fighting prowess.
Bell got a lot within one update, however nothing drastic. I don't remember the exact numbers, but at the beginning of the wargame his stats were in the 100 range and at the end around 200-300, right? it's not that much. he needs to reach at least D for the verdict to even warrant reconsideration. and just because Van is the strongest level 4 doesn't mean he's not level 4. even if he's the best you can imagine from a current generation second-rate adventurer, he's still, well, not too special against the first-rate ones. If a high level 4 Van can fight a high level 4 Bell 50/50, then a high level 5 Tsubaki has a clear advantage over a low level 5 Bell. don't need to remind that she's a blacksmith, since her skills were explicitly stated as matching first class, and she wasn't even inferior to a pre-update Loki elite, and was capable of defeating a weak level 5 being level 4. if magic swords come into play, it even stops being a "question with an obvious answer" and becomes a "no question".
high level 4 Bell was losing to Van sometimes. He is weaker than Tsubaki right now, let alone any level 6. And fresh level 6 Bell won't be the strongest after Ottar, obviously.
Why does level 4 have a level up bonus of 2000?
I don't quite understand your calculations... But yes, Bell should be level 6 in terms of physical prowess. However, he would lose to other Level 5s due to lack of experience.
I don't see the logic in them leveling up in 20 years, since it requires a feat that's impossible to do outside of Orario unless they kill each other in roughly the same pattern as Freya or Kali. A Level 7 is unlikely to level up by killing multiple Level 6s, so let's assume the Level 6s fight each other, assuming there are four of them (for the reason I stated earlier). That way, after two duels, they'll have two new Level 7s in addition to the high Level 7 captain. By training with each other for that long, two of them could raise to their max, giving them three high Level 7s in total. They could leave it at that, or one of them could have another duel, leaving them with a high Level 7 and a low Level 8. That's the only way they have without a Dungeon. If we're talking about Freya, it would be a good opportunity for Ottar to level up by beating a Level 8; the others would have to work together (which isn't their strong point, which means development) to beat another high Level 7 with strong skills and magic. I don't think it makes sense to consider Loki, since they're not going to level up unlike Freya. Although they can do it in Dungeon.
My first comment might have come off as too critical, but I want to say that I actually like the idea of "reviving" the Egyptian Familias or something, considering they're listed as missing and we're even given the name of one of the captains for some reason. We could also learn more about the Zeus and Hera Familias through this interaction before we get a full spin-off.
Correct me if I wrong but Egypt Familias only had levels 6 as their executives and level 7 captain right? Loki Trio already leveled up, and Ottar & the others FF executives will level up soon (I heard about Denatus in MS20 beginning? And Finn said something like that). So Loki and Freya together will have a total of one level 8, six level 7s, eight level 6s.
If we talk about system "some level x and captain level x+1" as in Freya and Loki Familias (Gullivers are count as one, plus Allen, Hogni, Hedin; Loki Trio are technically three but they are rival to one Ottar, and Ais, Bete, Tione, Tiona with them), we can see that having one level 7 captain you would probably have around four level 6s. Even if we multiple it by 3, that's still three level 7s and twelve level 6s.
In terms of just numbers, Egypt Familias would be... weaker than one Level 8 Ottar, if he is beastified to pseudo-level 9. I don't see how they can bring any problem for Orario. Hestia, Ganesha, Hephaestus excluded. Even Loki would stay aside.