In my opinion the only guy in the Hestia Familia should be Bell Cranel, considering the anime is supposed to be like a harem. So it's kinda off-putting with Welf Crozzo even if he's only the blacksmith. Rip Bell's Harem Familia
In my opinion the only guy in the Hestia Familia should be Bell Cranel, considering the anime is supposed to be like a harem. So it's kinda off-putting with Welf Crozzo even if he's only the blacksmith. Rip Bell's Harem Familia
What a lame idea Fuji, Danmachi would be worse if you had your way and it would lose a lot of fans.
I'm not discussing whether or not Danmachi is a harem (because it is). But the definition of the harem genre you gave is very simple and generic, which could put many works as belonging to the harem genre when in fact they are not.
A quick example to check would be Sword Art Online, this work is not of the harem genre and Kirito does not have a harem but what is not lacking in history are girls who love him around him, so by the definition you gave SAO is a harem when in fact it is not.
On the other hand, if we only consider the definition you gave then there is nothing more to discuss, you are right, the moment a girl finds herself in love with Bell she automatically joins Bell's harem. So asking why Oomori continues to include girls in Bell's harem becomes kind of pointless as it would be the same as asking why a carmaker makes cars.
I didn't say any girl but some girls do need some emotional development in relation to the protagonist in order to be relevant. For example, it's Eina's feelings for Bell that make her go after him in the Xenos arc. In contrast, I consider Mikoto to be a relevant character, but she has no feelings towards Bell except respect, most of her attitudes do not have Bell as a motivator.
Does Bell loves any girl in the serie aside from Ais? No. And even though the number of girls that like him keeps increasing, so as Angelo said "Bell’s feelings don’t matter" as Oomori makes the harem keep growing even if he still only loves one girl.
Do you have any proof that he loves Ais solely and exclusively. You can guarantee with 100% certainty that he does not have any loving feelings towards another character like Syr, Ryu or Haruhime for example, as for the growth of the harem I have already discussed this in the lines above.
I'm not discussing whether or not Danmachi is a harem (because it is). But the definition of the harem genre you gave is very simple and generic, which could put many works as belonging to the harem genre when in fact they are not.
A quick example to check would be Sword Art Online, this work is not of the harem genre and Kirito does not have a harem but what is not lacking in history are girls who love him around him, so by the definition you gave SAO is a harem when in fact it is not.
On the other hand, if we only consider the definition you gave then there is nothing more to discuss, you are right, the moment a girl finds herself in love with Bell she automatically joins Bell's harem. So asking why Oomori continues to include girls in Bell's harem becomes kind of pointless as it would be the same as asking why a carmaker makes cars.I didn’t tried to define what harem genre is I just said to what people refer when they say harem and being honest I would put SAO in harem genre so ven if does anime’s don’t have that category in reality they should. About Bell’s harem, there is not necessity to make the harem grow even more because actually it has a lot of girls and there is not point in making it even bigger, a harem is not about getting all the time bigger and bigger you can have one in the story that stops growing and it would work as it have to, it’s point is to show and develop a romance plot in the story, something that Bell’s harem is not doing and could do without getting more girls.
It is better in fact. If all the motivations of all the characters were around the MC it would be boring and repetitive. And all what you are saying Eina did because of her love for Bell she could had done it as part of her role of big sister as all what she had done is taking care of Bell and worrying about him, things that a sister can do as well. So again, she didn’t had to fall in love with Bell.
There has been showed not even a slightest proof of him loving any girl except for Ais. And if you are going to use the argument of him getting nervous around any of them it doesn’t work as Bell is only shy around girls and due to him getting as close to girls as he has done it and how he is, it would be strange if he didn’t became embarrassed.
Do you have any proof that he loves Ais solely and exclusively. You can guarantee with 100% certainty that he does not have any loving feelings towards another character like Syr, Ryu or Haruhime for example, as for the growth of the harem I have already discussed this in the lines above.
2 hours ago
Yes you can guarantee that only for Ais there are romantic feelings. And the guarantee is his ability that has not changed at all.
The harem, in general, is intended for people who do not have the power to make decisions. Especially for teenagers or characters at a young age.
A character with a strong character, who knows how to say. I do not want. I can not. It is never included here.
Good at Bell is a child without decision-making powers and shy does not want to upset anyone. The angry party is impossible.
That's why I hate the idea of harem.
The use of female characters as objects that argue with each other for a man's heart is a huge madness. In the end, only one wins, and the others remain defrauded. So, generally, I hate those characters who don't have the courage to say Stop. As people who lack courage dare to impose themselves. And be determined enough to say enough. People without decision-making power are the weakest and easiest to manipulate.
To Rigel31415:
1 - I don't know if I expressed myself correctly but I didn't mean that it was you who created the definition of the harem genre, but that this is the definition that you presented and use (apparently this is the definition that most users of this forum use). About the increase of the harem I meant that it must be because a) nobody complains to the author about it; b) the author and/or the editors must consider that this is one of the factors that guarantees the sale of the product (remembering that the target audience must first be Japanese readers and not western readers).
Ps1: I didn’t know this definition for the harem genre until you introduced it (personally I don’t like it, but if it’s the one we’re going to use then it’s the one I’ll have to work with)
2 - I don't know if a sisterly feeling could be considered enough for her to risk her life the way she risked in that situation (she literally went to an area full of monsters to go after him).
3 - a) About Bell having feelings for another girl: Lack of proof about such feelings is not proof that such feelings do not exist.
b) I don't know if your argument that Bell is shy and nervous with girls applies to the situation where he stayed with Ryu in vol. 14 in which he hugs Ryu from behind.
Ps2: I may agree with you that your argument must be the case for the vast majority of times that situations minimally similar to this occur.
To Ardamon:
Liaris Freese is not a good gauge for Bell's feelings because it doesn't define what feelings are used to activate it's effect (who says it's his love for Ais is Hestia and not the skill description)
From my point of view, Bell's relationship (and possibly his feelings) with Ais was kind of shaken by the end of vol. 8 until the beginning of vol. 12 but it seemed to me that even so Liaris Freese continued to work at full throttle which makes me consider that Liaris Freese is not connected with the love he feels for her.
But if we consider that Liaris Freese is the definitive proof that he only loves Ais then it is difficult to call him indecisive since he has already decided for her. Another thing, one of the girls you say that is always arguing for Bell's heart is Hestia which he himself seems to have already decided that he will not correspond to her feelings. (The end of the second season of the anime alters this notion).
It is most likely because of what you say but still Oomori should know when to stop although it is clear he doesn’t.
A sisterly feeling could be more than enough, there had been already case like that. If is between siblings that things like that are done it is usually a big brother doing something for his sibling but it can also be a big sister the one that does it as it is the same relation, in this case Eina.
I agree that it doesn’t make sense that he was able to do something like that but he was still embarrassed while doing it. And he is the same as always so I would say that it still stands.
Liaris Freese is not a good gauge for Bell's feelings because it doesn't define what feelings are used to activate it's effect (who says it's his love for Ais is Hestia and not the skill description)
From my point of view, Bell's relationship (and possibly his feelings) with Ais was kind of shaken by the end of vol. 8 until the beginning of vol. 12 but it seemed to me that even so Liaris Freese continued to work at full throttle which makes me consider that Liaris Freese is not connected with the love he feels for her.About Liaris Freese, it has already been stated that it is specifically related to Bell’s feelings for Ais. Here I leave you the complete explanation.
No. Liaris Freese will work while Bell is in love with Ais and depending of his feelings towards Ais. It has nothing to do with Bell wanting to become stronger.
The description of that ability says that too.
懸想が続く限り効果持続
懸想(being in love)it reads like 想い(feelings)
So the two ways to translate this is:
1- The effects will continue while Bell is in love
2- The effects will continue while bell's feelings continue
And 懸想の丈により効果向上
That means: Rise of the effects depending on how much he's in love(sorry, i don't know a better way to translate this)
But Liaris Freese(at least the kanji憧憬一途) means wholehearted aspiration, and of course Bell's aspiration is Ais(you can see that because in his monologues he always refers to Ais as Aspiration, i think that I read here that Yen press translate it as Idol, but whatever) so I'm not really sure what will happen when Bell reachs or surprass his aspiration(Ais)
What Ardamon mean is that usually harems exist because the guy is too indecisive, doesn’t notice the feelings of the girls and is too shy to say "no" to the girls and because they don’t her a clear one they still compete until the end that is when the MC decides over one girl. In Bell’s case he is just as that guys: too shy to say "no" or express himself clear, proof of it is Volume 8 with Lili, and if he was able to see the obvious proofs that they love her he would at least try to reject them or do something but he doesn’t.
I would say that in absence of knowing how to write tension in a romantic subplot, he decided to put as many obstacles in the way as possible to try and make up for it, but since the relationships are never actually developed and have minimal impact on the narrative it is just pointless lip service.
The problem with (b) is even if it is another culture it still flies in the face of what most aquisition editors got the job for. They don't make very good money, they choose the job because they love helping authors make the best stories they can, but a lot of it still relies on a good working relationship. The copyright is owned by the creater of a creative work. The exception is where authors are writing in a franchise thats copyright is already the property of another entity, such as Star Wars, Star Trek, or BattleTech, in which case it is contract work that requires the authors work by stricter guidelines. But if the copyright is owned by the author, the story is theirs, they can walk away if the publisher is to demanding. And Oomori has the sales and clout to do just that if he felt he was losing control. So if SB Creative was to push him to far, they would risk losing a valuable resource.
I agree with Rigel, their friendship is more than enough to give Eina the courage to find Bell. Given how many great stories are built around the theme of a friend or friends going to extreme length to help a character who is in a dire circumstance for nothing in return and simply because to idea of doing nothing is unthinkable, it adds a far more interesting and fitting dynamic to Eina then falling for Bell. It would have been nice for her to stay in the roll as his confidant who he could share his feelings with and didn't have her own stake other than wanting to help him.
It was the choice between freezing or sharing body heat, it is plausible that the extreme situation lessened both of there embarressment.
Something that irritates me to no end about the way people read this, Fast growth as long as feelings last, or Continued desire results in continued growth. These are the two english translations of the first clause of Liaris Freese in on the Wiki and for Yen Press. In both versions there is a specific phrase denoting that a particular requirement for the skill to function. There is no grey area on this, Liaris Freese is tied to something specific, otherwise as long as feelings last, or continued desire would not be in the English description. Somehow people keep reading it as there is not a clause that ties it to a specific requirement and the skill can move to another feelings or desire. If that was the case then the feeling or desire would not be continuing. It honestly isn't that hard to figure out...
What Ardamon mean is that usually harems exist because the guy is too indecisive, doesn’t notice the feelings of the girls and is too shy to say "no" to the girls and because they don’t her a clear one they still compete until the end that is when the MC decides over one girl. In Bell’s case he is just as that guys: too shy to say "no" or express himself clear, proof of it is Volume 8 with Lili, and if he was able to see the obvious proofs that they love her he would at least try to reject them or do something but he doesn’t.
There is also the case where the MC is just plain oblivious, which covered Bell for much of the story. Anyway I wouldn't pay to much attention to Ardamon on this subject given his partial view against the concept.
to Rigel31415 and Ivaannom
Thanks for the clarification about Liaris Freese
I disagree. Welf is one of my favorite chacters, and it is good to have a "bro" relationship. Getting rid of his character just so Bell can only live with people who are attracted to him is not a good reason. And besides, by that logic Mikoto should also not be part of the Familia considering she doesn't view Bell in any romantic way, and thus, she is not a part of the harem. The majority of Bell's harem lies outside the Familia anyway. Also, this anime seems to have the harem aspect as secondary, so it doesn't matter that much.
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I've recently noticed an increase in the number of attacks or maybe I should say the number of critiques of the author's writing ability on this wiki especially by the admins.
In relation to this thread's topic all I can say is thank god he apparently can't write properly lol. If this was a true harem or fanservice centric story I would've never steamed the DM and SO anime multiple times, I wouldn't have bought the first season of each on Blu-ray, and I certainly wouldn't have started buying and reading the light novels given I've never read a light novel or manga before this story.
Also, minor clarification - IMO harem and reverse harem stories are not romance, they're pure delusional fantasies written to cater to the sexually frustrated. Given I'm not personally a huge fan of the romance genre I can't think of many shows to use for examples but as an anime I've just recently watched I'd say Teasing Master Takagi San is far more a romance story than any story written around a harem premise.
True